The Gaiscioch Vault, Family Vault Credits, Donor Points - Thoughts?

Now that the whole package is live, I've found some adjustments that needed to be made.

I reduced the FHP Value of each level of items to:

Legendary: 45 FHP
Epic: 35 FHP
Elite: 25 FHP
Respectable: 15 FHP

After 1 day and seeing how much gear could be turned over into the system, a big concern popped into mind. Theoretically a person could buy there way into leadership with the current system. The Legendary Items were giving the same value as taking a fortress. It is because of this that I decided to reduce the values on the donation items.

For anyone that is new to this system please look over the following pages;

• Family Vault Credits - This page explains how to earn and use family vault credits (FVC).
• The Gaiscioch Vault - From here you can see what items are available. The items in the game vault are limited at the moment. Many of them have been moved to Daghdre's vault as in the first day we had more submissions that vault space. A lot of items I have 3+ copies of.

With this information said, Please let me know what you think of the current system. What are your thoughts and opinions? Any crazy ideas for expansion in the future? I believe this system will be yet another thing the Gaiscioch family has that the rest do not.

Foghladha

For me, the FHP I may get for donating an item are not as important as the ability to maybe one day get something I need out of the vault. Perhaps we need to set up a kind of guild currency where people can donate gold for Keep maintenance, or items for the vault, and then get something in return. I mean, non-BOP equipment is a commodity that has a gold value attached to it which varies according to the market. By awarding FHP based on a commodity it means that FHP is essentially for sale.

Yea, I think this is a much better system. The fact that I doubled my family honor points in about 10 minutes of time was a.) pretty awesome and b.) pretty ridiculous. Granted, I am glad to have the points I do now, but it was quite a bit real quick. So, I think that this is a more reasonable amount. I do think that donating should give family vault credits though. Like currently i have to give the guild 23 legendary talismans (23 talismans times 45 FHP = just over 1k = 4 FVC), to take out 1 legendary talisman for myself. This seems a bit much. While i'm happy to give more than I receive, because I also supply myself with WP talis, the 23:1 ratio is very high. For me as a scavenger and talisman maker, I get lots of purple talis, but all i really need to use are the willpower ones. So, I give the rest to the guild / friends and keep the WP ones for myself. It just seems like if I were to give like 2 BS / Str / Int talis, I should be able to take from the guild a equal quality WP one. So I would propose a system where you gain like 1/2 the FVC value of the item when you turn in an item to the guild bank. This would a.) further give incentive for donating while b.) not allowing super rapid progression through donating for family honor points. This would allow those who donate to get the items they need, while also gaining some HPs. Maybe the value of honor points would have to be further reduced for this system, but it makes sense to me that those who give should be able to receive.

Ok, What are your thoughts if I raise the number of FVC you earn. So instead of 1 = 250 FHP we reduce it to 1 = 150 FHP This would be closer to the original set for donations compared to rewards. Talismans and Dye's im still thinking of reducing the FVC cost. These will by far will be the most frequent.

I think I'm with Thofir on this one, although I hadn't thought of it quite that way before. The idea of Honor for Sale does rub me the wrong way. I really like the idea of donating money in exchange for vault credits (like Thofir points out, it would help with keep defense costs). Extrapolating from Gimba's idea, maybe a donation would grant you half of the Vault credits needed to withdraw a similar item. So donating a Darkpromise belt would give you 2 FVC's, etc. I don't know what the gold:FVC ratio could be, but I think it should allow members to buy stuff from the guild at cheaper than the average Auction rate. Also, if we suddenly get thousands of gold available, we could also do this: Members with gold withdrawal rights could make a decision on whether to purchase an expensive item out of the AH to put in the vault. Like some of those pricey but nice jewelry items (Watcher, Warden). To address the FHP issue though, perhaps the award badge for donating a certain number of items should also give a small/moderate Honor reward. I agree that it is honorable to donate to the guild, but I'm just a little uncomfortable with it being so well rewarded honor-wise.

What I've done is lowered the FHP requirement for FVC's. This more puts it in line with the original reward level and lowers the risk of point farmers being a darkpromise belt gets you the same as leading a T4 zone lock. I think this method puts more stuff in people's hands and rewards those that give. The FVC's are an automatic script that runs nightly I wont be able to credit people FVC's on demand so gold donations will be difficult. I am however planning on using any overstocks we have to sell on the auction hall and generate some more cash for us. Overstocks being 5+ of the same set item or over 20 for talismans. Eventually I may add a gold donation version however this will end up being another buy your way into leadership. So i may avoid this all together.

All fair systems need adjustments since there is no way to judge the influx of goods that would come in - nor the amount that may go out. I would also think about putting time limits on the length of time you keep something in the vault- if it just doesn't move in 3-6 months you might want to think about selling it on the AH and putting the money in the guild vault.

It just seems to me that there should be some type of system for the guild vault where if there is for instance a sentinel AM belt in the vault and I have a sentinel IB belt, then i could trade the IB one for the AM one. Currently when I come across one of these BOE items I can either give it to the guild bank where I would gain 25 FHP which is equivilent to one-sixth of a FVC. Thus I would have to give the guild 12 equivilent items to get one item out of equal value from the vault. With this system,If lets say I need lets say conqueror boots, then it just makes more sense for me to sell the IB boots that i randomly get in ORVR instead of giving to the guild. Because, if I sell them then i can buy my own with the proceeds in a near 1:1 ratio. Basically I'm trading the IB boots for AM ones, using a middle man who buys my IB ons. So it seems to me the only people who can / will donate under the current system are ones who already have all the gear they need and can afford to be generous. Thats not the case for most, as they do have really good items that aren't there's but they must sell them to get there own items. At a ratio of 12:1 the guild isn't competitive with the AH in the slightest, so while the guild will get some donations, it won't be a great many because its just not terribly worth it in terms giving items that you don't need to give items that you do. I'd propose that you severely decrease the FHP value of items, and in lieu of that give FVC. The ratio of what you give versus what you receive can't be 1:1 because then with the 150:1 FHP:FVC earning measure the guild would run out of items. But, a 2:1 ratio I think is reasonable. In summary, I think the guild vault should server 2 purposes. First, to reward those who participate in the guild. This is where the 1 FVC per 150 FHP comes in. This is good. It makes sense. Reward those who participate in battle with the guild. I also think the guild vault should be a place where people can trade items that they get and dont need for items that they need. This is where getting FVC for items would come in. Thus I, for instance, can quickly and effectively give BS / INT / STR talis and then get WP ones in return. While you can keep the FHP reward for giving, if a FVC reward is implemented then its not completely necceary. I would drastically reduce the FHP reward for items at this point if the FVC reward system was introduced. Thats 2 cents. -Gimba

I think the best solution would be to separate the vault from the family honor points, make a separate point system that is based more on contribution to the vault, via items/gold and possibly setting up specific runs to get particular items for the vault. I think that will be easier to balance to a 1:2 ratio while not risking people buying their way into leadership. Donation earns: To buy costs: Legendary: 50 100 Epic: 40 80 Elite: 20 40 Respectable: 10 20 Gold donations could be something like 1gold /2 points (adjust as needed for balance) this would make a legendary item cost 50 gold if bought solely by gold, but if done through donations and such would be very achievable. Specific runs could be set up with a bonus of (1.5*value of items donated, split up among participants; maybe even 2x, as in addition to the items, taxed gold would be added in.) Anyways just my idea, it's a VERY rough draft that took me about 10 minutes or less to spew out so may need to be balanced/tweaked, but this would solve alot of the issues of trying to keep the FHP system and the vault system interlocked.

opps I screwed up with the system since I do not read the forums that much. I place SW annihilator soft shoes ( SW ones) and 110 + ordinance in vault before I read this. I will mail to daghdre in future. I also took 10 potions for ballistics lvl 40) Sorry I will accept 10 cartoon lashed with a wet noodle

The stuff in Vault pages 1 & 2 is open for people to take. Take as much as you need :). Regarding the Donations vs Rewards. I will be dropping it to 100FHP = 1FVC. The idea of this system isnt to be a auction hall or trading area. If you would rather earn coin for it go for it. The idea is that members can earn gear by participating in events. That is the primary focus here. If we turn this into just another auction hall than it looses its meaning. The idea is to get people working together to earn more FHP which will bring more FVC to buy gear with. I'm also working on the idea of having a Surplus sale for items that we have more than 2 of which would be half price purchases until we have 2 left. We have 7 copies of several of the Anni set and I feel this would be a good way to regulate the supply and demand curve. With the next patch of the vault system I will also be able to have coin donations set at a 10% conversion rate. So 100g = 10 FHP. In addition Im working on a shopping cart feature so you can buy them online and I'll send them to you in game. The big issue is right now my time is very limited. So we probably wont see any major changes until August. July is going to be a busy month for me.

Fair enough. Its a great system for awarding those who contribute. Another thought I had for a possible item that can be purchased through FVC are the gold anni / conqueror bags that the guild wins when we cap a zone or pairing. I'm not sure exactly where these are currently going, but I know I'd pay an arm and a leg worth of FVC to get one. Just an idea. -Gimba

Well you or grego will get the one im hanging onto. so far i've gotten 2 bags in the mail. even though we owned a keep when we took that fort the other night i never go anything for it :\. I still think that system is bugged. Its the Anni Helm in the bag i have.