What the hell are we doing?

What are we doing? Giving up with out a fight? We hate the new patch (well most people do). We can not win? We can no longer get 5 to 6 warbands together. Greed is winning. The unkown is winning. Our subscriptions are running out. We are waiting for Rift, Guild Wars 2 and LOTR. We are right at this moment our own worse enemy! We have closed out minds to the possibilites out there in the RVR lake. There has to be a way to win! I feel it. I do not know what it is. But to find it we have to take off the blinders - we have these on since we are leaving the game for something else. We will play in T2 and T3 where we can win. The challenge is T4.

I have not been in a lot either because I hate changes because it takes me a long time to fgure them out. But I am going to come back and play more. I hate the idea of the stupid new rvr making me quit and tearing the family apart.

The Family needs to stand strong and together in this. We can find a way together but if we all go out seperate ways then so does our strength. Even with the old RVR our strength and success was that we could do anything and figure out how to do it if someone said we could not. We have lost our heart and our soul to a silly rvr change.

Everyone has time to bitch and complain but now it is time we show the world what the Gaiscioch family is all about and how proud we are to be part of this family.

If this offends anyone I am sorry. Please forgive all grammar and spelling errors. I will see you on the battlefield.

Ps. As of now there is no other game that give us ORVR like Warhammer.

Grumpy Lisa
Doctorfixit

» Edited on: 2010-12-12 08:32:11

» Edited on: 2010-12-12 08:47:18

Well, during our last T4 outing where we DID NOT try and run the PUG herd, we managed to capture a zone. Right now T4 is rough due to the increased number of Destro in T4....combined with the number of AFKers in the zones. I don't think its hopeless, Foghladha sure doesn't think its hopeless, but the rest of T4 doesn't have the "herd instinst" ingrained yet that allows it to make decent decision under the new oRvR construct. Just the major shift of taking BOs first instead of last is a major paradim shift...knowing WHEN to stop guarding them and start on the Keep is just important. Maybe when we do a T4 Siege night...we have Vented Alliance WB take and hold the BOs....and we ask the rest (read PUG) to run the field knocking Destro roaming gangs backs and protecting the carrier. Might be worth a shot.

I think the issue at hand is a much greater one than just giving up. Giving up is the effect not the cause. There are several things I have noticed since 1.4's launch which hinder our success in T4. 1. Imagrant players returned to their home server Now that they can level their 80s again the players who flocked here have gone home to their own servers. 2. Before 1.4 the way I had to lead order was by greed. Both goji and I only managed to get the herd moving by greed. Now in 1.4 greed is the jinx in the armor. This is also one of the main culperate with the massive warcamp guards we have. Ok now that I am at a full sized keyboard... lets continue. 3. Confusion plagues the battlefield. Any way you look at it the entire dynamic has changed. Players have to relearn the game from the ground up. Even renown tactics, armory, weaponry, skills everything about the game changed in 1.4. 4. The Playerbase available is under geared and under leveled compared to the destruction side. This is largely in part by #1. Our key players transfered off this server to play on other servers back when Badlands was in the tank connection wise. A lot of our RR80's are not around anymore. During our last event we had Docroc, Gillber, Korzak, Brunswik, Stoat, Morttech and Dargron with us. However the foes we were going up against were mostly RR80+. We cant expect to field 2 warbands with 7 RR80's and expect to stand up against a warband worth of 80's. Remember the PT days where we stood against KoTWW. How did we make that happen. Stick and move stick and move. If we stop moving we are dead. Before 1.4 we had 5 warbands and I could send 3 of them after the warband destro premade and roll over them. Now we can barely get 2 filled. They dynamic has changed as shall we. 5. 1.4 Punishes Casual Gamers and the PuG A group that does not vent, does not play like an elite, will not survive an engagement against a premade warband that does. The only way to topple the premade warband with underskilled, underequipped, and random class and levels is by numbers. Together we are strong separated we are weak. IF we want to have a chance against them WE will have to be Elitists. THIS IS NOT THE GAISCIOCH WAY. I for one will not run a leetist guild. I will resign before I let it go that direction. PLAY how you want, WHEN you want, AS long as you want. That is the way we've always been and that is the way we will always be. That being said, we need to KNOW that loss will be on the horizon, and we must be ok with losing sometimes. Those who are not vented, those who make up the PuG are now food for the premades. That means that WE are on the dinner menu. What we need to do is make sure were the spiciest meatball that will damn near rip your heart out on the way down destro has ever tasted. We may not win all the time but if we can topple a giant it is a victory we wont forget. Do I think that this is impossible? No. We've done it before and we'll do it again. One factor plays in our favor. Time. We as Gaiscioch are Patient, We as Gaiscioch know defeat, and have risen to victories over the toughest foes. We as Gaiscioch can thrive in this warfront, however we must buy our time and wait. In time, #1 the server balance will adjust and things will become even again. Destro will get bored of always rolling over us and move to another server or roll an alt. #2 Order will realize greed is the noose they hang by. They will begin to see there are far greater rewards that their own personal gain and we can work together to accomplish those goals. Time will also allow Mythic some time to patch the gaping holes like rewarding AFKers. #3 Time will ease the confusion, the more people play in the new system the less confusing it will be. #4 With each passing day order grows stronger, those that remain continue to get the benefit of 400% AAO and continue to fight tooth and nail for every inch. Destruction will grow bored, longing for a fight and will tire. Time will bring the giant down and raise the courageous up. #5 Over time we will find a way to motivate the troops to work together, they will celebrate victories as one or suffer defeat as one. In time Order will come together but first they need to shatter their old habits. As the population of destro declines we shall rise. What does this mean for us. We continue to make quite observations in tier 4. We watch, we learn, we suffer, we build strategies, we experiment, we build a plan, and we set it in motion. By persevering we will strengthen ourselves. My plan for December is to spend our Trinity Nights in Tier's 2 and 3, not because were running away but because we need to recruit new faces. We need to replace the numbers we have lost. The Tuatha used to fill 2 warbands by themself, today we barely fill 1. We must recruit new soldiers who will fight by our side. In addition we will train. We will train our people to know how the system works, how to game the system, how to progress no only 1 field but all 3 at the same time. In TIER 2 we will focus on teaching people the new system, In TIER 3 we will use our force to start moving 2 pairings at a time. We need to perfect this by January. Come January and the new year I want to be running full public Trinity Event's in Tier 4 that progress all 3 pairings at the same time. Will it be chaotic yes. Will it be mind numbing yes. Will it be rewarding, most certainly. WE have to stand up for those PuG's out there that are suffering, WE have to stand up and fight and stick the needle in the meatball. WE will become the biggest pain in the ASS Destro ever encounters. Will the Destro RR80+ WB's crush us, yes, But we will take from them everything we can on the way down and come right back for more. I encourage you all, if your having a hard time hanging in there with this patch, Join us for Trinity Nights, learn the fight with us while we wait for Mythic to fix some of the major issues. Spend time in the lower tiers teaching and leading others. Build our numbers up. If you need a break go do something else. We know its frustrating and nobody is going to shun you for doing something else. But the key is that RIGHT now is our moment, we can lay down and give up just like everyone else or we can rise and show the server that Scrubs can rule. I'm Proud to be a scrub and I am proud that while those leetist turn their back on their own we stand up and raise our brothers and sisters in arms and fight. I may not be the best player in the world, but in the end I will have stories to tell, people to share them with, and people who will share them with others. Realize a change is coming, for the better or worse we will meet it head on. Let us rise once again, take back whats ours and realize that NO GAISCIOCH OR TUATHA STANDS ALONE. WE make up this family and WE will survive any strife that stands against us. Foghladha

» Edited on: 2010-12-12 17:19:13

Despite initial impressions, we actually did very well during our last official Tuatha event in T4. I continued playing after the event ended, and Order actually successfully managed to hit IC as a direct result of the frustrating couple of hours we endured in the RvR lake. While Destro was breaking our spirit, we were obviously doing the very same to them, and once the event finished the tide quickly began turning in Orders favour. Each day the RvR lake seems to settle down more and more. I believe Fogh is correct about players returning to their original servers to replay their 80s. The sides are begining to even out, and the times I've been out in the lakes since the last T4 event, both sides are struggling to reach the city, and the lag sessions seem to be calming down.

I honestly dont have a problem with 1.4 (with a couple exceptions).....whats driven me away from WAR is : logging on and few people that I know playing....there are at least 20 people on my friends list(most longtime players)who no longer play. Now I could make the effort to connect with other players on the server but my attempts to do so have been exercises in frustration.... I will be back on in a few days after completing moving. Still got til the 24th until sub is done....

Greetins everyone, I've noticed many of the lvl80's from other servers are here now but busy building their new characters with slightly adjusted names :). This is good. I'm running into them in scenarios all the time now, peeps I've known from Phoenix Throne and Ostermark. Peeps appear overall to be starting to get the drift of things but all the WAR returnees not knowing what to do is pretty obvious :). A lot of the questions are first day 1.4 questions. Best example of greed ah see is peeps taking gryphons from ram carriers. If peeps can remind people not to do that around the clock perhaps we can teach the masses. Hats off to Shoooootin, Oldroar, Dain/Fog, Nalk and the others working with the wb masses during this transitional learning period. Perhaps the reward will be deeper fulfillment from strategic wins or even delays from a more complex, divided, real time information battlefield. SoR being less useful now doesn't help things, Fog is probably already rewriting it to make it useful :). General Thoughts: Ah have come to appreciate the core of the new 1.4 as I've seen more actual RvR/PvP in last few weeks than in a long time. They have fixed the keep loot rolling issue it appears and hopefully will continue to stamp out issues. When ah head out to a zone under seige now I'm fairly confident of actual combat pretty quickly compared to in the past and ah like that. Ah particularly enjoy seeing the same peeps on the same classes of Skaven :). They have done a good job significantly reducing waithammer and bo hopping, so the new direction might ultimately be successful. I've come to appreciate the lvl40 scenarios not having the <40's in them. It is giving them 8 more levels (and often 16 more levels renown:) before being unleashed on lvl40 T4. Only bummer is ah dont get to scenario group with our own trebeuh/tuatha <40s. Ah have taken to randomly sharing on advice: - How to heal a rat ogre skaven :) - To let ram holders through on gryphons That's mah contribution :) Very Best Regahds, Dwooid of Caledor

» Edited on: 2010-12-12 20:17:48

Hate to say it but I also have a wife that had a spinal cord injury a year ago, a son, and a career. That is where my priority is, not with a video game. Eventually I will jump in again but with the holidays and trying to start a business from scratch while working full time, I don't have the time. Not taking a break because of the 1.4 changes, taking a break cause my r/l will always come first.

» Edited on: 2010-12-12 20:46:08

Hello All, I for one am not going to give up on WAR. I too got frustrated and tried other games... alot of disapointment... I cannot go back to the ol routine of collecting 5 of these and 10 of those! So I am in it for the long haul and hope very much that all the great friends i have met along the way do too.. Bogron (slayer) Belilbert (BW) Boglund (KOTBS)

I hate to admit this, but I dreamt about Warhammer last night and about Gaiscioch. I was examining the issues that many are having with 1.4 in my mind. I'm sure that there are many people who are still struggling with the great number of changes (hell the whole system is different and after years of having it a certain way habits can be hard to change - I'm usually quite a stick in the mud when it comes to change). I agree with a lot of what has already been said. I also (since trying to take a more positive attitude to everything in general) believe that this patch is going to be a great opportunity, and will enliven new challenges. I for one am enjoying the fact that I can now get renown without having to queue for sc or wait till there's a large enough wb to take down the keep lord. With my timezone being where it is I'm not always on the server during a peak time. We need to learn to crawl again before we can walk and run. Who knows when I gain more confidence in my leading abilities I (with the help of my husband of course) may start leading some late night oRVR sessions if I get enough interest. (By late night I mean 11pm PST onwards)

The ORVR event last week was a great success. It just is hard to see the effects of our efforts right away. We had a great effect on the T4 campaign but effects did not take place until after most folks had logged off. Order had not pushed to IC during prime time for a while and we did that night.

Lisa - I doubt you could ever offend anyone.. We did well last night - frankly, lower tier destro just is not use to order standing up to them, period. I'm suprized they didnt rage quit. T4 - I would just keep to ourselves .. too many rolling around removes the element of suprize since sheer numbers and rolling BOs does not work anymore. One thing I confirmed last night - by rotating and getting ppl from Offense to Defense you end up with more RR/XP when you lock. It as my theory in a previous post which was pretty much spot on. Like you said, As of now there is no other game that give us ORVR like Warhammer. And that, right there, is a very bitter pill to have to swallow. If I had a game alternativee with oRVR like we have here, besides stepping back to DAoC, I would. I caught myself falling asleep in my chair last night.. checking the clock to see if we were finished yet only to discover it was 7:30pm PST - I had to load up WARgames addon and basically play bejeweled while we waited. On Volkmar - they whine and b*tch endlessly they cannot do xyz .. my magus took elf twice on saturday, by herself - it took forever and except for the chuckle I got out of it, it was just rather pathetic. I popped into T4 - they couldn't take anything with 5-stars in well over 3-4 hours in Eataine - which had been going on for a couple hours prior to me being bored enough to bounce over to T4 at clvl 33. I'm late for work .. maybe I can rework these thoughts later but as of now, I will not give them more money than my sub, I will not buy the "expansion packs" and I will not allow any of my dwarves to work with skaven .. there's just some lore lines you do not cross and they did.

I'm not around as much because of the holidays. Shopping, parties, etc make finding time for WAR problematic. I also admit that I rolled a Worgen lol. Anyways, Fog mentioned this in his post but I just want to emphasize the point. Since 1.4, if you are undergeared compared to the other side, then you have to have overwhelming numbers or really good organization to win. Pre 1.4, BO camping concentrated the zerg so that even if you were less geared, the numbers worked in your favor. 1.4 forces you to split your forces and that means even if you are a larger force, you can't always brings those numbers to bear against a superior equipped opponent. Now if you are well organized, then it helps balance the scales a little bit. The setbacks we are seeing in t4 in my opinion is a direct result of this. Until either the gear imbalance is fixed or our population increases dramatically, I don't think much will change. The good news is that if you bought the training pack, your renown rises so fast that I think it won't be long before we fix the gear problem. But until then, it's gonna be some rough sledding.

Speaking of the RvR progression pack. I bought the darn thing...is it applied automatically? Is there a buff signal to show that I'm getting more renown? How does one know its working?

[tap] [tap] [tap] is this thing on? Jonzac, it's applied to your account and from what I can tell theres no visual indicator it is on. Your renown will just be higher than people who don't have it.

Doc, winning and greed have never been a factor for me. With no other way to say it, I'm just plain not having fun anymore. I'm not going to knock Warhammer here, I feel I ripped the new one on the official forums and don't want to impede or influence anyone else opinion. I miss playing the Iron Breaker and sometimes during my commute I think about what fun it was. I just can not support and will not endorse the path they have taken this game. I feel betrayed. At this point I'm struggling to find time to do anything. However as you all can tell, I'm staying in touch. I'm not going anywhere! I'm just kind of stuc in limbo. The old lady is due in January and had completely quit working. Which means she's making me mutha luvin crazy.... I can't stress this enough... Friggin crazy... No booze, no bar, no fights, no game time, no sanity left!

» Edited on: 2010-12-13 16:59:27

» Edited on: 2010-12-13 17:08:46

I will be back in the lakes more now after getting my Royal weapon - it was a grind I had to concentrate on as I was getting close (and have now achieved) rr75.

I guess the thing I'm having the most problem with is... *hangs her head in shame* ...greed. Gaining RR is soooo fast now. Soooo fast for basically sitting around. Yeah, I know, sometimes there are still good fights to be had where we don't automatically get steamrolled. But hey... I guess I'm just not seeing how anyone can gear up in this system and it's making me nervous and not wanting to play. I just got RR 53 and I don't even have half of the medallions needed to buy my next Invader piece. And taking keeps doesn't really happen that often, does it? And after that, Warlord? What the heck, I haven't seen a city siege or defense since the day the patch hit. How is everyone supposed to gear up now? And how is every undergeared person on Order side supposed to compete with the multitudes of Sovereign-clad people on Destro side? *sighs in despair*

That's not being greedy. That's a genuine concern shared by alot of players. If you RvR from level 36 on up, most likely you'll hit rr50 before you hit level 40. What's the point of buying Conqueror when you're so close to Invader? Luckily Warlord crests drop when you lock a zone now. Of course, Mythic didn't help matters by breaking the keep loot mechanic for several weeks either. lol.

well, you all heard me rant about this, so i`ll keep this short. I don't give a flying f for winning. I don't care about greed. If i did, Celebtyr would be a full Sovereign clad 80 by now, instead of being 40/43 with nine characters on various levels of evolution. I care for having fun, and fun is all i don't have anymore in this game. period. Subscription runs out tomorrow, so after today's trinity i won't be seeing you guys in the fields until rift (and maybe GW2, though the first never caught my interest) releases. Until there, good luck and good hunting to all of you.

Congrats on rr75 and on that nifty new weapon Gargarus! Glad you are going to be out in RvR with us again :) I haven't even started on the grind for the new SC weapons... [cries]

Aye, congrats on the RR75 and the weapon Garg! That's a heck of an accomplishment! Gaining gear is a bit of an issue now, especially with the fact that city seiges/defenses have slacked off some. When 1.4 hit, Destro was in our city 3 or 4 times a day, but it seems that Order have gotten the hang of it (and some Destro have probably slacked off on playing some) and so the city isn't happening as often. Keep takes are few and actually winning a bag in one isn't practical. On the up side, zone flips award Warlord crests, and when the city does happen, all the crests there will break down into Sov or Warlord. I've also noticed that there are a TON of crests dropping in the lakes. Several times last night I saw Sovereign and Warlord crests both drop from the same player. Every time you see a crest drop in the lakes, remember that it's actually 5 crests and not just one, so kill more and collect the lootz! Looking at the progression rates, I would probably recommend that if you're in the 50s and find yourself without Invader gear, just grind on through and put on Warlord in a week or two instead. Obviously this works for some classes better than others, but in many cases it works out pretty well. For instance, my Rune Priest, Lorkig, is RR 64, and still wearing Annihilator and Devastator pieces, but in a couple ranks (today or tomorrow, depending on the AAO gods) I'll have him in a few pieces of Warlord. So, I think getting gear definitly seems like an issue now since people are ranking up as much as 3x faster than before 1.4, but it's not impossible. Don't be afraid to slip into a zone to nab the flip and get your crests, it adds up pretty quickly. Most importantly, don't get discouraged if you find yourself passing the ranks where gear is available to you before you have it. Before the city was revamped and crests were easily available, there were many players at RR 80 that didn't even have full Warlord gear. The current system is still superior to that, and I wouldn't be surprised if some changes are coming down the road to smooth the gear progression out some.