My thoughts about 1.4

Ok this is my impression of the RVR changes. Now mind you I'm not going to give up just yet I love playing with each and everyone of you and I feel like gaming wise I'm home. It's just the changes to the RVR make Warhammer well boring. Maybe it will take time for people to learn so I will give it sometime. But I miss the old system, because there was always destro around. Yes I know there is AAO so my WH could be fun. Honestly I just don't know T_T kind of feel lost atm. Please bare with me.

Kavurn, nobody can deny your dedication. Your a true asset to the Gaiscioch, and I'm glad to group with you always. As far as my thoughts on 1.4, well here I go. I haven't logged into Warhammer in a few weeks, I just don't got the time, however for me being Captain Casual-Play I can see the benefit. I can just jump in and go resource runner babysit and soak up a few rp's, giving me a sense of accomplishment. Unfortuneately that is ridiculously dull so scenario's are where I'll spend most of my time, if I play at all. When we run together, of course we just flat out dominate. All BS and trolls aside, it's just what we do. Our organization and communication and discipline have just become woth their weight in gold. I'm pretty sure we just caused some true grief and destro to unsub. The bad side, without our organization... Well the shoe's on the other foot now isn't it. It's still gonna be a numbers game. Now it's who can cover more ground. A well played gank squad (Vampiresbane I'm lookin to you) can have some fun and run up some points, but without the organization of teamplay, well I don't think it's gonna turn out so good. Sitting at a BO and sending out the runner just sucks. But it's necessary, therefore someones always gonna have to bite the bullet. Sooner or later either the zone flips or you wind up a sticky mess on a destro's boot. It's obviously still buggy, but I am simply pissed off to no end that I have to pay another $15 to powerlevel. $15 is nothin to me, don't get me wrong, I piss away $100.00+ every Friday I go on a bender. But it just cries of desperation. So in my Reclis opinion. Yeah the guild is what gets me to log on, the guild is why I keep a sub goin monthly, the guild is where I'm goin, and I plan to stick around a long time. I had some fun in t3, no doubt. But aside from the one decent skirmish at Thickmuck, I was on the phone makin plans, eatin, watchin TV, blah blah blah. And they hit the city twice during our event. That's nuts. Yeah I know we can do it to, but where's the tug of war? You either dominate or you play ring around the zoney. I'll keep on keepin on, and hopin maybe I'll find my groove, but I will not judge a sour opinion, and I hope you all do the same.

» Edited on: 2010-11-18 21:07:40

PvP games are a lot of fun when you have someone to fight, and hopelessly dull when you don't. The question is whether the new RvR makes you more likely or less likely to find someone to kill in the face. I think time will tell, but based on last night it seems like there are two stages to the fight. The BO stage and the keep seige stage. The BO stage last night was hopelessly dull. Basically it seems like it spreads you out so you can get ganked, or you spend a quality hour doing nothing but baby sitting a BO while contemplating your navel. I think it might be the fun stage for the undermanned side since you can pick your fights to some extent, depending on how undermanned you are. For the side with the advantage its boring, you're basically waiting around hoping someone shows up. The keep seige stage was ok, and was really the only fun i had last night. Frankly this is not that different from the old keep seiges. There are cannons to worry about which was nice and your success rests solely on keeping your ram going/waiting on your ram to show up which was not so nice since rams are unrepairable (bug?). I haven't seen a really organized keep defense yet, but I suspect they will continue to be as much fun as they have been in the past. So, to sum up, BO stage horrible, keep stage as good as it has allways been maybe a little better.

We had totally different impressions Caemlys, but it may be a playing style thing. I liked the BO phase b/c it did spread people out and let to lots of little, dynamic fights. The keep stage wasn't "boring" for me yet b/c of all the new toys but I could see it getting that way. However, my prediction in this new patch is going to decrease PvP in RvR, not increase it. That's b/c taking an undefended keep is easier than taking a defended one (and you only need to take one) so people will shop zones for ones that have no/little opposition.

Single shot cannons are like sniper rifles now. Be sure to place them in a place where you have minimal incomming damage vantage points and premium targets. I placed one inside the gatehouse in direct sight of the oil but out of sight of the cannons and it worked very well. I also placed one infront of the outter ram in the gatehouse floor with the 2 walls blocking incomming damage i was able to drop the oil and several targets with the cannon. The key is to act like a sniper. Be aware of your flanks and who has line of sight on you. Place them where you can do maximum damage without taking returning fire. If you stick to this that cannon will be a deadly asset. Seige weapons indoors is gonna get fun. We had a cannon in the lord room. We've just got to adapt to the new system and realize that this game is different. EVERYTHING we knew is gone. It's time to see this game as a new game.

I can't really speak on 1.4 vs the prior ORvR because I've only been playing a lil over two weeks. And I guess I really shouldn't speak on the game because I've only been playing a lil over two weeks. But... that's not how I roll :) I guess the changes that I have seen really aren't that dramatic. Following a NPC around in RvR seems a bit pointless in a way, but last night in T2 we ended up having some great lil skirmishes because of it. I didn't really do much Keep taking but joined in on one with local warband and supported them and again not a HUGE difference. Now all of this is coming from some one totally ignorant to the intricacies of sieging in this game. My experience comes from leading zergs in DAoC, so the long drawn out battles are what I enjoy. Where patience and perseverance along with good tactics and communication win the battles. But it still comes down to organization and communication. I guess what I'm trying to say is not much changes. There will be new tactics to get the job done for sure. But the one thing I can say about my short time in the family is the leadership here is second to none. Ben, Shooootin, Rants to name the leaders I have followed so far. This may not mean much to alot of you (cept Wolf), but I am a Marine. I am very very particular about who I take orders from and very mindful of the decisions they make and the style of leadership they use. I'm very impressed by the level of organization and communication we have and because of that I don't see any major obstacles in our near future out in ORvR. Thanks for your time Airyk aka Jim

Hey Airyk, welcome aboard! We are all very happy to have you! Got a chance to chat with you a little last night and I have read your posts, I think you will find you and your wife and family will be very happy and comfortable here. Please don't ever hold back an opinion because you feel your new, in truth your view is just as valuable as any of ours. Communication, organization, and discipline are our greatest strengths, we need to continue to encourage these virtues.

Thank you Sir! We had a pretty good group in DAoC, one of the biggest guilds on the classic servers. We were Mid... I know I know Ben already got on me about "how can you play Mid when your girl is Irish" lol I'm norse so it worked for me. Her excuse is I MADE her do it being the Viking that I am lol. I didn't think we would find another good group of people like that and then we fall in with Gaiscioch. Then after we are here a little over a week I find out that Lumabow is in the guild. Luma and I were part of the old crew on DAoC. Anyway... I think Ben said it best it's a new game and we have to think of it like that and not keep worrying about how it's different. I guess this is one time its lucky to be the noob, I don't have to RE-learn it all :)

I guess my problem with the BO stage is that (assuming you have the advantage), it seems like you are waiting for a fight rather than going and looking for one. I did a lot of waiting last night and not much fighting during that stage. Maybe that won't always be the case, time will tell.

Caemlys, I'm curious why were you waiting? Please dont take this as I'm questioning you. I prolly wasn't doing something right. We just kept running with our transporter guy or going and finding Destros runner and jacking him up. Along the way the small Destro groups would be doing the same and had some fun little battles. Was I supposed to wait for something? I thought the RP and XP pool for taking something was gone so I never stuck around for anything.

I had a decent go of the new orvr last night and this morning. Last night was fairly quite we took a small warband of about 3 groups flipped 2 zones and were trying to get the 3rd and the last keep was defended quite well took us 3 wipes to get it. This morning (admittedly the warband was not listening) we were wiped by some dest camping at feiten's lock a few times while trying to assault the keep. This patch is going to take some time to get used to but I am sure that we are a guild, as a fellowship, as a family we can make it work for us. I've see our warbands triumph in situations that were bleak and stacked against us (keep in mind I've not been a member that long either). We have that resilience to triumph in this situation and if we don't win as long as we have fun and take out some enemies in the process it makes it great in my books. And yes I gotta admit I am a bit annoyed that as a poor student I won't be able to 'powerlevel' so I hope me being disadvantaged won't negatively influence my wanting to play.

» Edited on: 2010-11-19 15:04:28

My initial first-time impressions... Pros * New War Machines - LOVE IT! Never got to operate one, but seeing so many enemy machines lined up on the walls, explosions everywhere, health dropping dramatically with every shot (playing a healer really kept me busy)... it somehow felt alot more brutal and epic. It was like assaulting the Forts again, despite the smaller scale. * New Victory system. Not a fan of the Gold and Yellow (despite being my national colours), and would it have killed Mythic to fill those empty circles with icons indicating which faction each colour belongs to?... but overall any system that doesn't require a mod to read it is an improvement. I've no doubt an inability to read the victory points has kept many a casual player from stepping to to lead, and this might help that a little. * Resource Gathering. Too soon to get a proper assessment on them, but they did seem to break up the "zerg" somewhat, with 4 seperate BOs and 4 seperate resource carriers running around at any given time, all requiring constant attention. Cons * I was away for the last few weekends so never got to playtest - as a result the new mechanics were as confusing and disorientating as possible. It's going to take alot of adjusting, and any written FAQs and Walkthroughs of the new system will be highly valuable (and appreciated). The midst of a hectic battle (getting thrown in the deep end as it were) was not the ideal place for learning stuff. Mythic really needed to add a little system that introduces you to all the new features - such as Hint Icons on the map that point out things like where the Griffons are and what they do (I only discovered them after the event), where the Rams can be found and how they work, etc, etc. * Something about the whole system seemed a bit... off. It feelt too scripted, like I was just getting carried along for the ride, rather than taking control of the battlefield situation. Hopefully this is just a result of the unfamiliarity of it all. * The War Machines - yes I love them, but as I sat there hectically healing and rezing everyone in sight under a barrage of firepower, I was wondering how your average random PuG would ever find the co-ordination to take down a keep. The only reason we were surviving for so long outside the Orc Keep was because most of the healers were actively covering each other despite being from seperate WBs. It was brutal. I dread to think of the results if Destro had decent numbers and decided to push out during that WM fire.

I was told to cover the BO, so that's why I was waiting around a lot. I think things may get better as we learn more about the strategies and (hopefully) Destro starts to give us more of a fight.

I agree with Dagron that the new system could use some sort of tutorial or help system. I also was away from the game for the last little bit and when I logged in after the patch, things were very confusing for me. One of the nicest things about WAR is how you can get yourself 'stuck in' really quick. Just find where the action is at and go at it. I found myself the last couple of days being a bit confused as to where I was supposed to go. The other thing that was not very clear is the availability and access to the Skaven. If I had a gold piece for every single time someone asked on some channel how they could play a Skaven, I'd be rich. ;0 I researched it on the various websites etc, but when you advertise the Skaven as a big new attraction, it would be nice if it was clear how one could actually play one. Anyways, it's not the end of the world. There are just growing pains. Hopefully, not too many people get frustrated and leave before.

I'm pretty new, but do you guys use Enemy addon? Its REALLY, REALLY great for organised groups, since it allows you to focus fire, better control guards and looks prettier than standard unit frames. Not sure when there will be full update on curse - http://war.curse.com/downloads/war-addons/details/enemy.aspx - but there is a fix available here: http://users.telenet.be/tom.cobbaert/warhammer/

Ceamly, went through the training session last night I totally see what your saying now, and I totally agree.

I know this sounds rather selfish but I want to be in the thick of the action, not sitting on some BO while I'm living vicariously through vent as others fight. That's what happened on saturday's t2 training session. It was a great tactical win for us but it sure didn't get the blood pumping. Unless beating up on a resource runner npc gets you going. And I know that exp and rr are spread throughout the resource gathering, bo taking, etc...but the big payoff for zone locking was rather...underwhelming lol. ;0 I do like how they readjusted the level ranges on scenarios and oRvR lakes. Being a level 32 in t4 scenarios was not pleasant. Now I can enjoy scenarios all the way to 40. Of course it would be even better if I could buy some weapons with my Soldier emblems.

» Edited on: 2010-11-21 16:25:58

The shiny, for me, has worn off. BOs and waiting to let the carriers loose - unless there is a fight, you're babysitting. It was an Arathi Basin flashback. - today while I sat on BOs, I knitted almost 2ft of a Irish fisherman's scarf.. that's celtic knot cableing. With smaller forces - you cannot respond quick enough to a BO in distress. Keeps - wow .. once the oil is is down, unless on the ram or spot healing .... you pray for destro. For me, and a few others.. The best way to enjoy what they have done is to go with a group or wb who doesn't BO sit.. just go looking for the fight and leave the objs to the masses. The Skaven Inscursions that siphon the BOs and lock everyone out of them - frankly - keep the pve out of the lakes. Are they using pve to slow down a lock? Something is just missing from the process between the time you take a BO until you take the keep and flip - it feels unfinished or they forgot a good third of actual orvr mechanics they planned to impliment. I started out Order on Skavenblight - why? to get rid of the filth and the taint... having to work with the skaven just makes me feel dirty. I need to think on it more .. then toss up some suggestions - right now I dunno.

» Edited on: 2010-11-21 17:41:45

» Edited on: 2010-11-21 17:46:13

Here's my thoughts on oRvR in 1.4 Weird. Very very weird. In a buggy sort of way. Particularly the zone locks. Last night, Shaeamus (of BE, also RR 80) and I zoned to Caledor as it was about to flip for Order. We both ran a short distance down the hill, just into the RvR lake, where we set up a banner and dropped an aegis. When the zone flipped, I received around 4200 rp, and Shaeamus got about 3700. Aside from the fact that we got rp for doing nothing, we recieved differing amounts for the exact same amount of contribution. Later in the evening, after losing Reikland (in a battle that netted me around 80k renown, thank you AAO) the group I was in all zoned to Kadrin Valley, where Order had just taken the southern keep. Again, we all walked out of the warcamp, set up a banner and dropped an aegis. When the flip came, I recieved over 10,000 renown. For doing absolutely nothing. Some of the other guys in the group got about the same, but no one recieved the same amount, even though several of us were the same rank, we all had the same buffs, and we'd all done the same thing. I guess my biggest problem is that there's no consistancy whatsoever. Oh, and mailbox guards are back, I've got a big problem with that, too. Also: I think the renown gain bonus for sub 80s is busted. Somehow. Someone in the alliance asked a question about it last evening, and I responded that I thought it was working. But that got me questioning it, so I started paying more attention. In city instances I'm earning just as much rp as sub 80s in the same group with the same number of kills. More in some cases. I've heard that 'it shuts off when you hit 81', but I wasn't able to test it out last night. I was in open field RvR when I ranked up, but the rp gained seemed to remain about the same, though in open field it's really hard to tell. I'll test all this more in cities, scenarios and open field and let you all know what I'm seeing, but right now things seem very, VERY screwy. Also 2: If ya'll don't like sitting on BOs, don't do it. Put together a group that's your friends and go kill destro, especially if there's a decent AAO going on. The rp you gain from the zone flip is insignificant compared to what you've got to gain from beating up some silly destroz. Actually, a couple times last night I made more rp from the losing zone flip than some of the successful zone flips. Go figure.

How does the rr bonus work? I keep looking for a buff or some info in my chat window that describes it. I find it hard to believe Mythic couldn't take the time to add some type of info in game for something I paid money to buy.

Here is the pattern I've seen: Order takes one paring to lock... Destro takes another pairing to lock. They meet in the third paring (for the zerg-busting battle that Mythic predicted). Whichever army is bigger, pushed all the way to the enemy city.

Stoats is absolutely right - grab an easy pairing and meet "in the middle" - perhaps Mythic should have gone to locking it all down before getting to go to the city. Another pattern I have seen is destro is running circles in the zones in 1-2 wb packs rolling BOs and taking out our resource carriers - while we fight to get them back or go clean up after them. Picking up dropped barrels from their carrier is 25% of what we make if our carrier makes it to the keep? Contribution at the flip - this is a renown formula calc for ea bo, keep, carrier kill and all you did? So if the above is true - sitting on a BO vs rolling and recapping would be worth more of whatever you get with a lock - win or lose. Getting 2-4k+ renown for walking far enough back into the lake to get flagged when your enemy takes a zone.. just wha? *shakes her head* That's as bad as "everyone's a winner" in little league..

» Edited on: 2010-11-22 19:46:07

a note on the "Sub 80" bonus... I think the total bonus only comes into play VERY close to 80... Before that it is less. Kinda dumb, but there is a thread about this on the official forums.

» Edited on: 2010-11-22 20:14:59

I'm pretty sure you're right, Zahir. What I've been told is that the further from rank 60 you are, the bigger you're bonus, up to around 300% at 79 or 80. Also, after quite a bit of testing today, I've come to the conclusion that the rr bonus from the Progression Pack doesn't shut off until you obtain RR 81. And then it shuts down, hard. In a 6 man with upper 70s players, I was making 30% of the renown that they were doing all the same stuff. Pretty painful, but we were taking advantage of AAO and such, so I'm already over 100k towards 82. Taking this slowdown into consideration, I don't think we'll see RR 100s in any great number till sometime in February.

I rolled up a shadow warrior lvl 32 now. exp is so slow but Ill fill my entire reknown bar before i get to 7% exp. With that being said i think the reknoun bonus is pretty great at the lower levels too

All I can say at this point is I have more fun when out in small groups than with the zerg. I'll be at all of our guild events if I am logged in on that night. But other than that I don't have much concern about taking keeps or locking zones for me. I will just put small groups together and go after everyone in the lakes. I just don't see enough benifit in t2 and t3 to do anything else. I'm new to the game so I havn't been in t4 yet but I'm thinking roaming gank groups are where the action is going to be now