Valor Points Vs Fellowship points

Hey. I just wanted to ask a question in regards to points required to be promoted.

Currently, in order to be promoted, you need x number of fellowship points. This does not take into account that if you are LEADING an event, you are participating in the fellowship, but the valor points you get do not give you credit towards advancement.

If you are leading an event to help other people see content, and get advancement points, etc... Why do you not get credit towards advancement yourself? Is there any way to make the promotion requirement a combination of both?

as an example.. i have almost 4500 Valor points. i need 4000 total points to be promoted, but i only have like 1900 fellowship points because i am actually leading and posting these events for other people. Is there a reason I'm not getting the same credit people who are in my group are getting?

I"m not saying this to be mean or nasty, I'm just confused, and I've talked to other people who just won't lead groups because they get more credit for being in them than leading.

» Edited on: 2011-10-24 16:52:35

See this post for your answer.

Take into consideration that we want people to learn "The Gaiscioch Way". When they can get to Lorgair and start leading in 2 events these days how much of the "Gaiscioch Way" will they learn when they've only participated in 2 family events before stepping into the leadership role. We want people to continue participating as they lead so that they can better learn what we're all about and later apply it to their own groups. A person who ONLY leads will be isolated from the rest of the family and will not gain the same unity as those who participate as well as lead.

Although some events are worth a lot of points, there are still many that are not worth huge amounts, especially if you are not able to attend the 6-9pm timeslot. It really is event-dependant. Maybe you could take into account the number of events people have been involved in rather than only the points from them? Not criticizing, just a thought.

» Edited on: 2011-10-24 22:28:20

I guess what my main question is then, is what is the point of valor points? when the total required to be promoted is the same as or less than the total of the fellowship points and the contribution points, why even have valor points?

VALOR points are used to ascend into the LEADERSHIP ranks. You can not become a Ard Tiarna with out them. The majority of the tree is focused on FELLOWSHIP points as the majority of the playerbase chooses NOT to lead. Why should the majority of the family only be able to climb so high? We wanted even Followers to be able to become officers so we put the focus on FELLOWSHIP up through the Officer ranks. Once you hit the top of the officer rank it's up to you to lead and make the 20,000 VALOR required for Ard Tiarna. Sorry guys you cant take the LEADERSHIP out of LEADERSHIP. You'd be left with nothing. If your only leading for the "points", you shouldn't be leading in the first place. Sorry guys but thats the honest truth. I don't see the problem in asking our leaders to continue to participate as well as lead.

Nobody is asking to be Ard Tiarna with fellowship alone (taking the leadership out of leadership?), nobody is asking for Valor requirements earlier. Not everyone is trying to get to the Leadership ranks. There's not going to be just two types of players, followers and leaders, there must be a middle ground. The point system is in place to represent reward for doing things which are of value to the family right? Getting points means you are doing worthwhile things for Gaiscioch. The tokens of valor represent doing things "The Gaiscioch Way", a bad leader isn't going to get any. If the concern is starting to lead too early, why not increase the leadership unlock past Lorgair? It's kind of a mixed message. "I've talked to other people who just won't lead groups because they get more credit for being in them than leading." < < < This is the exact problem I was alluding to in the previous thread. This is what I was afraid of, and why I keep posting (I'm not trying to be annoying). Related sidenote: What happened to the requirement in the upper ranks of "Receive the tokens of virtue from the elder council" (can't remember the exact phrasing) ? I thought that was the gatekeeper requirement for being "The Gaiscioch Way" through and through?

Pat, Im asking you to Trust me. I have reasons for doing things. I don't just draft this up on lunch break. I analyze a metric ton of data to build these models. Months of data. The "Gaiscioch Way" is our ideals, beliefs, behavior. This has nothing to do with points or progression. This has to do with learning about us and becoming part of us. It's how a Gaiscioch member holds themselves publicly. Just trust that I have our families best interest in mind. If you don't trust me by now then we've got bigger problems than leadership and fellowship.

Nowhere did i say that i wanted to take the leadership out of the leadership role, nor did i say that I only lead for points. I could care less about points. I've never been in a guild where promotions where based on a points system, and I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind the way things are set up. I can understand wanting leaders to participate, my only question was why there was no room in the model for leadership to count for anything until a level most people will not attain. I honestly didn't even notice that it was there for Ard Tiarna, because thats so far down i wasn't paying much attention to it. In my opinion all officers are leaders, or they wouldn't be officers, but that is neither here nor there. My point was why couldnt it be layed out in a way like this (numbers are random) Total Family Honor = 10,000 Fellowship requirement = 4000 contribution requirement = 4000 left over = 2000, that you can get any way you see fit

Kailenn that is how it's laid out... TOTAL FHP = Arisan + Explore + Lore + Fellowship + Leadership Freiceadan: 2,500 TOTAL FHP & 2,000 of which need to be Fellowship. the other 500 can be any type you like. Seaimpín: 15,000 FHP of which 10,000 must be fellowship leaving 5,000 for Artisan, Lore, Explore, or Leadership as well as 10,000 Contribution. Contribution is completely separate to prevent people from "Buying a rank" it does not award anything when it comes to family honor points. It merely gives you a second method to earn Family Vault Credits. As it stands right now what you described is EXACTLY how it is now. You have your allocated points that must be fellowship, a total number and then a pot that you can earn any way you like.

Ok, see that was where the confusion was... i thought contribution was part of the FHP. Thank you for clearing that up, i honestly was not trying to cause problems.

yeah I figured there was a disconnect here. Just didn't know where it was. Sometimes if ya run into something like this chat with me on vent and i can clear the air. Text is really hard to understand sometimes.