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Apothecary items on the marketplace - cost vs. reward imbalance

Seaimpin de na Ulchabhan Oráiste
Charlatan
Seaimpin de na Ulchabhan Oráiste
  • GW2: Charlatan.9306
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Posted On: 06/21/2011 at 05:05 AM
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One of our Apothecaries brought this up before but I can't find the thread so I'm revisiting the topic. As a crafter this is a concern to me (though it doesn't afffect me directly because I do not have a toon who is an Apothecary).

There are a couple of issues with Apothecary items on the Marketplace.

1. First Issue: Reward for different levels of potions does not appear appropriate
**************************************

It appears to me that the cost vs. reward of potions on the marketplace needs to be adjusted. I'll use as an example some potions with which I'm familiar:

Mighty Brightsurge Vial - increases Int/Wis by 35 for 1 hour, lasts through death
----------------------
2 Twilight Bloom Roots
1 Eternal Planar Dust
1 Pristine Distillate (2 Twilight Bloom Roots, 1 Tempestflower Stems)
1 Empty Runed Flask

This is a "Green" quality flask which is mis-labeled as "Blue" on the marketplace (not sure if that affects the credits offered for it).

That's a LOT of resources for one vial.

There's an upgraded version too, here's the materials for that one:

Heroic Brightsurge Vial - increases Int/Wis by 40(!) for one hour. Lasts through death
---------------
3 Flickering Dust
2 Eternal Planar Dust
1 Mighty Brightsurge Vial

So the "Blue" quality vial takes the green one, and adds Eternals (the flickering dust is cheap). Two Eternals for 5 more Int/Wis (to me this shows that Apothecary recipes need a revisit from Trion but that's another story).

First thing that appears out of whack: On the Marketplace the reward for this vial is *the same* as for the Mighty Brightsurge Vial. This does not seem reasonable to me. It requires a higher Apothecary skill and takes more resources so it should have a greater reward.

2. Second Issue: Reward for Apothecary potions seems low relative to rewards for other professions
**************************************

Let's look at the reward for the Green ones, versus the reward for something I can make: a Band of Spells:

Band of Spells (reward 150 Hammers/150 chests)
---------------
2 Brightshale
2 Cinerium Bars (1 Orichulum, 1 Carmintium, 1 Flux)
2 Eternal Planar Dust
1 Shimmering Core
1 Superior Polishing Agent

I can request the Brightshale and Core from the Marketplace for 1-3 credits (Brightshale is often free, and the core is 1 credit). I donated all mine to the Vault because I wanted to clean out my bank! Cinerium is cheap to make and I'm swimming in ore. The Agent is a vendor item, so the only hard to obtain resource is the Dusts. I currently have 40 Eternals in my bank, and can easily supply two for an order such as this.

If you were to buy these resources off the auction house you'd pay (price is for one of each): Brightshale (<10g), Cinerium (40g), Eternals (2.2plat), Shimmering (60g) = 6 plat. Yikes!

Let's look at the Apothecary vials again.

10x Mighty Brightsurge Vial (reward: 100 Hammers/100 Chests)
---------------------------
20 Twilight Bloom Roots
10 Eternal Planar Dust
10 Pristine Distillate (20 Twilight Bloom Roots, 10 Tempestflower Stems)
10 Empty Runed Flask

Twilight Bloom Roots are moderately expensive. Tempestflower Stems are also not cheap. Flasks are vendor items. Even if you discount the plants entirely for this argument, the Apothecary STILL has to provide 10 Eternals for the flasks, versus me providing 2 Eternals for more credits! Even if the Apothecary has these plants on hand, think of the time investment for gathering 50 plants to fill one order. That's at least 17 nodes, and more likely 25. That's a TON of time considering for the band of spells I can probably get 1 Orichulum and 1 Carmintium in less than 5 minutes in Stillmoor.

Buying these mats: Twilight Bloom (50g), Eternals (2.2p), Tempestflower Stems (25g): 44.5 platinum (not a typo). fourty-four platinum!!!!

So the vials take a lot more resources, would potentially cost 7x more to make, and reward.... 2/3 as much as this ring I can make. That seems... really unfair to the Apothecaries. Even if the rewards were based only on the number of Eternals / Catalysts consumed (as these are typically the only truly hard to obtain items used), the vials seem like they should reward 5x more points than the ring. Or maybe the ring rewards way too much.

Conclusion
********************************
I've placed and received orders for both types of vials, and to me this speaks to the dedication of our apothecaries - because with the massive costs involved, I can't see how anyone can justify handing over 10 of these vials for the current contribution points that are awarded. And as a consumer I can't see ever ordering the blue version since it's such a resource hog, and only marginally better than the green quality vials.

At any rate, it seems to me that the rewards for Apothecary items needs to be adjusted. Otherwise I feel that we're taking advantage of the generosity of our Apothecary brother and sisters.

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Response:

Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
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Replied On: 06/21/2011 at 08:53 AM PDT
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This all changes tomorrow. Waiting to see how the patch changes the difficulty. Higher level potions take less mats, make more per creation, and plant nodes increase spawn and drop rates. Plus you now use a fragment of a minor catalyst instead of the whole thing. 1.3 gave serious love to potion makers let's see the difference before I spend a ton of time on this.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
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Replied On: 06/21/2011 at 09:47 AM PDT
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CRAFTING * Foraged plants receive an overhaul: plant distribution has been adjusted in all zones, including addition of new spawn locations. Plants that are frequently used have their spawn rates greatly increased. This should also address issues with plants spawning in level-inappropriate areas. * Foraging on plants now has a chance to provide 4 drops instead of 3. * Updated a number of Apothecary recipes to use different plants. Krakenweed now gets used, and some plants have been scaled back in use while others have been increased to balance out consumption. Recipes that used plants of an incorrect rank have also been corrected. * Reduced the minimum Foraging skill requirements for the following plants: - Creeperbrush: 30 [previously 35] - Krakenweed: 60 [previously 70] - Tattertwist: 140 [previously 145] - Drakefoot: 180 [previously 185] - Bloodshade: 200 [previously 220] * Increased the drop rate of bone and tooth drops from Butchering slightly, as well as the maximum number of bones that can be received per target butchered. * Apothecaries can now learn a recipe from Master Apothecary Trainers called 'Catalytic Essence', which converts 1 Minor Catalyst into 3 Catalytic Essences. Apothecary recipes that previously used Minor Catalyst now use Catalytic Essences instead. * High-level Apothecary recipes have had their costs re-evaluated: - Bottles of Critical Strikes/Bottles of Spellstrikes recipes now craft a quantity of 3. - All Vial recipes now produce a quantity of 4. - Heroic Healing Philter recipes produce a quantity of 3. - Panacea recipe crafts a quantity of 3. - Elixir of Impunity recipe produces a quantity of 2.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Seaimpin de na Ulchabhan Oráiste
Charlatan
Seaimpin de na Ulchabhan Oráiste
  • GW2: Charlatan.9306
  • ESO: @Charlatan57
Replied On: 06/21/2011 at 11:50 AM PDT
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Well heck, just put my post down as bad timing then. :D

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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
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Replied On: 06/21/2011 at 12:07 PM PDT
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It's come up before but with these changes coming down the pipe i didn't want to invest time in it just to have to switch it back.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Ridire de na Capall
Cordite
Ridire de na Capall
Replied On: 06/21/2011 at 04:18 PM PDT

I am glad you explained it a little better than I did Charlatan. And I was also very glad that Fogh mentioned the family vault to me in the other thread. The frustrating part is the rediculous economy for apothecary mats. It is way over inflated. Never ever buy mats off the AH for potions.. you are just giving away your hard earned coin. I did a test this weekend to see how effective the family vault was and I was very happy at the results. I filled 3 or 4 potion orders (from the stock I had on hand) and then ordered replacement materials (just the Eternals really.. as the roots and things I harvest in bulk at least once a week or so) It was a pretty large order of the Eternal Dusts and so I was a little nervous because I did not know how long it would take and if they would come in bulk or would trickle in one at a time. (Not knowing if they would come from individuals who had donated them to the guild or from a stockpile as if we had a guild bank) When all was said and done I had invested at least 100plat worth of materials based on AH prices for about 40 potions..crazy right? I wasnt too worried though. The committment and dedication of the people and leadership here at Gaiscioch have never failed. My rather large order of Eternal Dusts was recieved in bulk in less than 72 hours. With the apothecary and plant spawn changes and the addition of the Guild Bank in this upcoming patch.. it is only going to get easier on apothecaries. I am hopeful the 1.3 changes will also balance out the cost of materials a bit. I simply refuse to buy the mats right now. I would rather spend 6-8 hours harvesting and doing rifts to make those same 40 potions then to dump 100 plat in someones pockets.

» Edited on: 2011-06-21 16:26:25

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Caomhnoir de na Iomproidh Gorm
Wolfenstein
Caomhnoir de na Iomproidh Gorm
  • GW2: Wolfenstein.7905
Replied On: 06/21/2011 at 05:48 PM PDT
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Artificer is another tradeskill with silly AH prices. Sometimes I just don't have a choice though. :(

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