Clarification on Family Points for Raids

Ben could you clarify for me please as I have heard dfferent answers from different raidleaders and I wanted to make sure am posting correctly in the future.
If you have a raid but don't actually down a boss, do you post points to be claimed for the event? I'll follow whatever the answer posted here is :)

» Edited on: 2011-06-14 19:29:42

You mark an objective when you have SUCCESSFULLY completed the objective. You do however get points for the Event itself. So: Event + Boss 1 + Boss 2 + Boss 3 + Boss 4 + Dungeon Complete

In that case, I think we may need 'Event' entries in the drop down for GSB, GP and RoS.

The event entry gets created automatically when you start the event. That's what all the sub objectives go into.

Yeah but other raids have been claiming the events with no bosses down, which Bentmer had explained to me we shouldn't do. For example we only enter it once the first boss is killed. No bosses down = no points was what I was told. I wanted to clarify as we have different raids doing it different ways :) I have no issue with which way we do it as long as we are consistent! (Seems to me if ppl show up and raid for 3 hours but don't down a boss they should get some type of points for effort!)

» Edited on: 2011-06-15 02:17:00

I have been putting down the name of the event in it as being 'done', but not any bosses until/when those are downed. I agree, something needs to be available for everyone who puts in the hours of time even if we do not clear the place. The Rift raid dungeons are designed as multiple day outings with a week long reset timer on them. Forays into the place should garner some kind of credit as well that represents the level of geared player, commitment, time, and effort put in by everyone.

Perhaps something could be set up so that if nothing is downed there is a minimum of points received. For example, if nothing is down then you get half of what it would be worth to down all the bosses. If you get past the first two then you get those points and half the remaining points. This is just me brainstorming though. Feel free to completely ignore it.

I don't think you guys understand what Fog has mentioned. If the event is created and no bosses are killed, you still get family points for checking off that you did the event. It's not as much as if you did the event AND killed the boss(es), but it's pretty fair. Why give a bunch of points for not being successful? That's basically like giving points away for free. For instance if you look at #19 for Top #25 campaigns (one of my old warhammer rvr pickup fights), you'll see overall Gaiscioch players got 327 points for all the objectives met and beaten. The whole event was 332 points. Do the math and that's 5 points for participating. Now realize as far as participation points go, that's a REALLY low %. 5/332=1.5% But this is a top 25 campaign. Most campaigns are lucky if they get into the 50 point range and in that case participation is 10% or so. My point overall is, you get family points for just showing up. Your team/leader could have had the worse night in all of pve/pvp history and you'll still get some credit for attempting something. If I have read Mijjah's post correctly, Bentmer and co actually need to post the event EVEN if you didn't kill anything. In Warhammer, us pvp leaders had to post similar events even if we got our collective butts kicked. So don't fret folks, just remind your raid leader to enter the event no matter what happens and you'll get participation credit even if you don't kill anything. EDIT: One thing I should add is that doing things in Warhammer awarded a different number of points than they do in Rift. Ben(Fog) could clarify this further, but it doesn't really change the overall point of my reply.

» Edited on: 2011-06-15 07:59:52

In rift there's just more objectives and faster objectives which leads to higher scores. Plus the boss multipliers for hard mode and raid dungeons. But yes the event itself is worth Fhp regardless of if you win or lose. This system was built to track your success. If we start awarding for failure the system loses its focus. I understand it takes a lot of time to do some of these things. Quite frankly nobody does greenscale for family honor points. if they're successful they get a boat load. But if we start awarding things for trying what's to keep people from claiming stuff for thinking about trying? You don't ear medals of honor sitting on a couch while countrymen bleed in the field. You win you claim victory. That's as simple as it is. The event itself gives you some fhp regardless of what happens.

Ok thanks - I only queried it because Bentmer told me he had been told the opposite, and that you only got points once the first boss is downed. (eg nothing for the actual non-boss killing event). I then noticed Wildflower's way of doing it and queried it due to there being two different opinions and us just wanting to get it right :) Ty for the clarification. I personally feel that if players invest 3 hours in a concerted effort to down raid bosses together they should definitely get points! But just for doing the event. I am not sure if people actually read my post - I never once said people should get boss points for not downing bosses. Or for failing :)

» Edited on: 2011-06-15 14:52:33

I don't recall telling anyone that you receive no honor points unless you killed a boss or not to post an event unless you killed a boss. Since, I've hosted several events with no boss or objective before, (the animal races to Sanctum come to mind) it would be strange for me to tell other people not to do that. Then again, I am senile so maybe I did say something like that lol. I do remember telling several people who asked that claiming an objective as completed without actually doing so is incorrect. Now back in the days when you could only choose Unscheduled Pickup Event or Scheduled Pickup Event, I think some people claimed an objective just to identify the event rather than claiming credit for the objective because it was oftentimes hard to differentiate which event was what back then. I do believe the current system is fine however. I see no difference from people spending hours wiping to a raid boss and people who spend hours in a warfront getting run over by a rank 6 premade lol. It sucks and it's frustrating but sometimes that's what happens lol. Honor points are a privilege I believe and not necessarily a right. That and it does mess up the accounting of how many dungeons/warfronts/rifts a person has actually completed. The only modification I'd suggest is adjusting the points total for killing the raid bosses. Currently they reward the same amount of points (with the exception of Greenscale and Alsbeth) as killing an expert dungeon boss. But like Ben said, accumulating honor points is not the primary reason why people raid lol.