Marketplace - Vault Credit & Resources

Good afternoon,

I just wanted to throw around ideas on the economic system underpinning the Marketplace and Vault. For this post, I will use resources/Vault Credits interchangably. I'm not an economist, so bear with my imperfect system analysis.

It seems to me that the system as it currently stands involves Crafting Items going in to the economy from donators (who receive resources as currency). This is the only input to the economic system, and thus the basis of the currency.

The use of actual donated crafting items are 1) crafting skill advancement (no output to economy), 2) crafting items created for the crafter themselves (no output to economy), 3) crafting items created in fulfillment of a request (approximately net-zero to economy), 4) inventory retained by crafters for any period of time while waiting for other materials necessary to craft an item (drag on economy), 5) attrition / skimming (goods that are, ultimately, intentionally or unintentionally sold off).

In addition to this, resources are granted for contribution to events regardless of items donated, which skews the ratio of currency to real items in the system further off-balance. I think this is probably the one most important to keep though -- contrubtion comes in many forms, and event / guild betterment efforts should be rewarded.

Because there is only one input with a linked output (resource donations to crafted items), and a handful of other items dragging on this economy, it seems like there will (definitionally?) always be a shortage of resources unless members substantially underutilize their resources. Ideas that come to mind to me for resolving this would be to 1)substantially reduce resource awards for event / donation contribution, 2) make donation contribution rewards more FHP and less resource-based, or 3) increase resource costs on items requested.

Any other ideas or perspectives on this? It may be premature as the system is fairly underutilized (especially considering how well developed and complete it is), but in fulfillment of crafting orders I've been almost exclusively been having to look into my own pockets.

Bazkoare, I appreciate the feedback, and understand as a businessman what your saying. However Gaiscioch is not a Business. We are a family. Did your father charge you for a hot meal while your growing up? Or for the clothes on your back, or the textbooks you needed for school? I doubt it. The Marketplace system is designed to be a place to bypass the need for a guild vault. Since its launch (on 4/11) we have processed 1,688 orders. MOST of which were for 1 credit for an item, and 1 resource for a resource. I have since built out a pricing structure which automatically prices the thousand+ items in the system based on either Item Required or Skill Required. They then are x2 for blue items x3 for purple items. Eventually I'll add a x4 for rare materials required items. The fact is if your coming to this marketplace system thinking "Profit" or "Self Gain" your not reading the top paragraph on the Marketplace or the Marketplace How-To Guide. This marketplace was built to encourage community and helping crafters and gathers gain ranks within the family. For all ranks over Lorgair, Contribution is required. The focus on our family is "WE" not "ME". Profits and Gains should be secondary to a members goals of helping one another. If you don't like how the system is made then don't use it. I was building this system in alpha, then in beta, then in live, and finally on April 11th I got the system online. Every single item in this system was added by hand by a Gaiscioch member (Blocked, Lady, Cindermist, Don, Fifthelement and I mostly). Each item required us to find the recipe and place the data from the recipe in a content management system to log the item. Each item takes roughly 2 to 3 minutes to input and we have over 1,000 items in the system. thats 2,000 to 3,000 minutes not including the approval process of our members time to make this system happen. Plus the dozens of hours I spent late nights to build it in the first place. So for someone coming to this system with profit/loss in mind, where is the profit for the people who have spend HOURS on this system. Family is about giving. You help one another, you grow strong together, and you succeed together. Even if everything was FREE this system would still be used because people in this family like helping one another. We've merely provided them a 5th method of leveling within the family ranks. The Gaiscioch is not like any guild you've been a part of and is likely not like anything you'll be a part of in the future. Take a moment to toss the pre-conceived notions of what a guild is and realize we are not run like that. Again thanks for your post. We'll be adjusting prices as seen fit. Right now 250 points is the cap for most items which is the same as a REALLY good event night. 1000 points required for Lorgair so with 4 items created a member can become a Lorgair. That is the end goal we were striding for. Players contributing and displaying their will to sacrifice for the gain of the family. Those who do not show their willingness to sacrifice will not advance here. Selflessness is a skill all leaders need. I put my members first every day and ask for nothing in return. I wouldn't have it any other way. Foghladha

» Edited on: 2011-05-11 13:59:10

Understood, and I'm not trying to in any way demean the intent or implementation of the system. I agree that it is working great now, and I'll do what I can from my own pockets to see that it stays that way. I just started thinking about the economy and started thinking out loud. Mostly, I wouldn't want to see people disillusioned in the system 5 months down the road because of inflation (e.g. Joe requests a Minor Catalyst for 5 vault credits and can't get it for a month, despite having contributed enough to earn 200 vault credits and never using them). The microcosm leading me to this post would be Saralandrielle who has over 100 Planar Dust and 300 witchweave item requests outstanding, which will take a fair while to gather for (but everyone probably wants epic bags! And a lot probably have the VC's to afford them). Unless a system is zero-sum or better, there will be people who can't "use their money", so to speak. You've got a lot on your plate, just wanted it to leave the idea to tumble in our collective minds. There really is just one microcosm, this-ain't-not a macro-problem.

I think the system is an amazingly well thought out system. I am impressed/blown away how such a large guild is so organized. I would like to know if there is a way to request an item that you would be willing to pay for / provide material (+ tip). Despite being a gatherer, I find it hard to gather enough of the right materials to gain the credits I need to get a work-order request. I have material (except that darn minor catalyst) for most of the items I need. I also can make weapons/runes/potions but lack things like minor catalysts. I would happily make items if some key ingredients were provided by the user. Treaa

That's in the works. Just trying to find a way to put a negative modifier on the reward for provided materials. So the crafter doesn't get full reward if resources or augment are provided.

I think one of the things that hasn't been taken into account by the post is the fact that the game's economy is always changing. For example, Treaa mentioned that (s)he needs a minor catalyst. You mention that Saralandrielle needs a fair amount of planar dust and witchweave. These things are rare, but Trion is constantly adjusting the flow of items in the game. With 1.2, for example, Crafting Rifts have introduced significant quantities of minor catalysts and witchweave and planar dust into the economy. While they are still non-trivial to acquire (thus the relatively high contribution in the Marketplace) they are entering the game quite a bit faster than before. I have 3 minor catalysts in the bank now, and I'm looking at possibly pulling one of the Armorsmithing orders to fill it. Doing that not only nets me contribution (probably enough to get to my personal goal of crafter level 5 so I can submit recipes) but helps the guild become better equipped for events. Better equipped means more fun means better social interaction and more fun.

One enhancement I would still LOVE to see at some point would be the consolidation of requests from a single player. For instance, if I put in 20 requests for 1 eternal dust it would be nice if it just showed "Eternal Dust -- Mythgarr -- Needed: 20 -- Claim ____" and let you choose how many you wanted to claim. This would prevent the signal-noise problem I've sometimes seen when somebody needs a lot of a given material. That being said, I think the current system is working incredibly well for what it was intended. Many members of the family choose not to use it and instead vend items on the AH, give mats away for free, or barter mats for items. I think that is as intended. I have benefited on any number of occasions from the generosity of family members (most recently from 2 donated eternal planar dusts to let me finish the weekly crafting quest).

"One enhancement I would still LOVE to see at some point would be the consolidation of requests from a single player. For instance, if I put in 20 requests for 1 eternal dust it would be nice if it just showed "Eternal Dust -- Mythgarr -- Needed: 20 -- Claim ____" and let you choose how many you wanted to claim. This would prevent the signal-noise problem I've sometimes seen when somebody needs a lot of a given material." This! Often I have 1 when they want 2 or 5 or 10. And it sure would clean up the materials request section. (But on the other hand I would like to see Fog in-game more instead of constantly tweaking the website, so it's a trade-off for me.)