A Question of Etiquette

I have always tended to think of the opposing faction as "the enemy", and have not afforded them the same courtesy I show my allied faction. As such, I have never given a second thought to killing a low-health flagged opponent, or to stealing resources they're fighting over. However, in the past, I have never had to consider how my actions might reflect on anyone other than me.

Before I continue in the same tradition, which I personally see no problem with, I want to be sure I am not doing something that would, in Foghladha's opinion, tarnish the reputation of Gaiscioch. I raised the question in guild chat, and it seems likely that this is not something Ben would like me to do while wearing a Gaiscioch guild tag, but I'd like to get it straight from the horse's mouth.

I realize there's a high likelihood that this post will engender some heated debate. I can only ask that those of you who find my stated philosophy offensive please honor the one family rule, "Blades Out, Not In".

Thanks

I'm with you. Opposing faction gets no rest. Kill em all, let the officers apologize. I'm pretty sure Fog will agree. Last "big" bar fight I was in about a year ago now, was an all out mess. Some people say we had more, my guys say they had more. In the end, the victor is always the last one standing. This beefcake dude was busted up already, but snagged my guy Nickys leg as he was making his exit. Dude pulls Nicky down and try to friggin sleeper hold Nicky. So I grab the nearest bar stool and brain this big bastard. Long story short, next week people start saying I'm slipping for clobbering some jack ass who was already down. I say dude coulda killed my boy. Who was right? Don't matter, I won.

» Edited on: 2011-03-02 11:00:54

Let me put it this way. "Never beat an opponent so bad they don't want to play you." We are the biggest baddest and meanest foe they will ever face. If we want them not to turn tail an run occasionally we will have to give the illusion that we are not so tough. Make them believe they can beat us. We give them an inch so that we can take from them everything. Just don't be an ass and we'll be ok. Things like killing a quest mob repeatedly, Laughing at people who die, peeing on corpses, or killing the same person over and over and over again while you camp his corpse are things we want to avoid. We fight with Honor and there is no Honor in that. If you look at our roster, you'll see a lot of the people playing with us today were our enemies in Albion, Midgard, or Destruction. This is because we fight with honor and dignaty. We don't beat opponents who are a fraction of the level we are. Farming Lowbies is not something we will smile upon. Griefing is not something we smile upon. But taking on a player a couple levels below or someone above your own is fair game. Just don't make it a habbit to pick on people and make them cringe at the sight of our name. We are community developers and for our community to thrive we need both sides.

Sometimes people's feelings get hurt in PvP. They get frustrated or angry and that's probably why the majority of MMO players prefer PvE. But as long as you're not being purposely malicious or rude then I don't see how they can blame you for it. What I do caution against in a PvE ruleset is to not try to force others to PvP. If you flag and they do not, then it probably means that they'd rather not. Taunting them or calling them names is what gets you that bad reputation. At the end of the day, people will form their own opinions about us as a guild. You probably heard some yells yesterday that were making fun of us. We can't make everyone happy. As long as we act in a way that make ourselves proud then that's all we can do.

I've always bowed to or saluted slain enemies in recognition of a fight well-fought. Back in DAoC I never killed grey-con players who were not attacking or somehow assisting enemies who were attacking my side. I understand the 'no quarter' view, but I've always appreciated sportsmanship and respect. That's how I fight.

» Edited on: 2011-03-02 12:44:02

My personal rule of thumb is this, How would I want the enemy to treat me? Is it fun to have someone 20 levels higher than you kill you over and over and camp your corpse? Nope. Unless the enemy is close to me in level, I will not attack the enemy unless he attacks me first.

Considering that we are on a role playing server, are there any Rift lore considerations to take into account here?

The OP was about killing low health players, I just asumed equal level. I would never intentionally grief a low level or grey con, unless provoked. That's just rude. If a flagged player, is low on health thats open game. Waiting until the person almost dies is bogus, but it happens. Low level = griefing, rude, just overall douchebaggery. Equal level = someones gotta die. Don't get me wrong I'm a prick, but a respectable prick.

Reclis was right, and I see how what I wrote wasn't clear. I was talking about killing low-health players roughly my own level, usually in the same areas I am questing in. However, since there is a definite faction of people in Gaiscioch who feel that stealing resources from the enemy is wrong, I will refrain from doing it. I am proud to be a part of this family, and don't want anyone in it to have any reason to be anything but proud of me, too. Thanks everyone for your input.

I agree to all of the above. As far as lore reasons, well, I think that's up to individual characters. Some might rationalize that the Defiants are a bigger threat than the rifts/dragons, and some may feel the opposite. Some may be bloodthirsty, and some may value peace above all else. The thing that I will never stand for, however, is griefing with the excuse that "my character is an asshat and so I'm roleplaying". Roleplaying a villain is a difficult thing to do and requires a lot of finesse. Otherwise, you're just a griefer with a pretty backstory.

What do you mean by stealing? If you mean that you are simply harvesting a node that is unoccupied in Defiant territory then that hardly classifies as stealing. If you run up to a Defiant who is occupied fighting another mob and take the node from them then that is rude and is generally frowned upon. But the faction has nothing to do with it, I just think it's rude to do that to anyone. We may compete against them but we're all human beings and should be treated as such.

Lore wise, I think there is some respect to be had. Like in the opening movie the Guardian doesn't kill the warrior when hes down, he "counts coupe" by slashing the front of his enemies armor.

This little drawf has two faces in this, first is when I'm running around alone or small grps, then I will only kill lower ranking players if they leave me no other choice and I give them room to make mistakes that they would not give me. The other face is in large events and with own lowbies that being tried ganked, I will gut them like a fish to save our own, frankly I went strait for the 50's too.

Not having engaged in much PvP yet in this game, just how does one go about recognising and measuring up his opponent to guage the worth of the kill? I noticed during our opening party run into enemy territory, that upon first impression, our foes were barely distinguishable from ourselves when unflagged. Those that were flagged and on the attack, I noticed had "??" listed instead of their level. What are all the clues that allow you to quickly and easily tell friend from foe, that allow to to quickly judge whether the Defiant player on his last slither of health is a lowbie you are taking advantage of, or an experienced player twice your level who could still potentially weather your attacks and take you down first? Just some newbie questions.

Well Darg, when they're not flagged for PvP, there really is no difference color scheme wise. Their names will appear blue just like friendly Guardians. You have to either recognize their racial features or mouse over and read what race they are. When they flag PvP, their tag turns yellow and then red when either you attack them or vice versa. As for level range, you can mouse over and read their level range unless they are significantly higher level than you are. When you read the ??? tags that normally means they are way higher leve than you. I haven't checked what the exact cutoff is, but it's probably 10+ levels. Basically, when they're not flagged, they don't really count as a "foe". When they fix the rendering issues, I think it'll be easier to tell people apart in a zerg.