Concerning PUGs. Observations and suggestions.

Hey everyone, just participated in the latest Gaiscioch WvW event.  I noticed something that I think we definitely should consider.

I remember in Warhammer Online, when there were the weekly events happening in the RvR lakes, there was always someone putting instructions into map chat for the PUGs to follow along the zerg.  I thought this was great, and really gives our whole team a direction, rather than some of us in Raidcall, just praying the zerg can do something useful.

I think a big reason the latest event was so rough, at least in the Borderlands I was in, was because Sanctum of Rall was fielding so many PUGs that honestly just weren't being all that useful.  If Gaiscioch could do in GW2 what they did in Warhammer, I think we could make our server more successful in WvW.  Our opposition seemed to be very coordinated and seemed to be mostly all in one place.  There were never small groups spread all over the map like we had at times.  I think what we are lacking is direction in team/map chat.

Having all Gaiscioch in one place is grand, but having the whole server where they need to go is how we bring Sanctum of Rall victory.

All that being said, I realize that the leaders of the WvW events already have too much on their plate as it is, and it'd be rediculous if they had to put everything in team chat as well.  That's why I would suggest a designated person who's in Raidcall, and can type fairly quickly and accurately, and communicate things clearly, to relay key information about our movements into team/map chat.  I wouldn't mind filling this role myself.

This is something I noticed a ton in WAR that I havn't seen yet in GW2.  I realize that maybe it's a bit early on for it, and it might develop naturally, but I thought I would help it along a bit. Having the PUGs organized for our server could've made tonight's event a lot more successful. This is a bigger problem in GW2 than it is in WAR, because of the caps on the WvW maps.  Every person doing something silly is someone who could've gotten that crucial stomp or revive in at the tower.

Just something I'd like to see come back.  That being said I'm having an absolute BLAST with Gaiscioch in WvW, and I love the level of organization and discipline we have.  The leadership is fantastic, and you guys are doing great.  Once everyone has learned the game a little bit better, and we learn eachother a little bit better, I think we will accomplish unbelieveable things for Sanctum of Rall.  Keep it up. :)

Also: I think we should really to push to get Gaiscioch a Commander Book.  I think this will help tonnnsss!  Let's make it happen. :D

» Edited on: 2012-09-04 22:44:35

» Edited on: 2012-09-04 22:46:51

This is exactly why we need the commanders books for our leaders.

I was just wondering, is there any way a new member like me can contribute to the overall strategy of a WvW event? I love things like this. Ive had some pretty decent experiance from shadowbane. A few examples of some very basic things i'd like to do is have rangers pop entangle on wall defenders and have everyone aoe dump until the enemy is dead. Have mesmer teams setup to yank defenders from the wall to kill. Things like that that can help soften a pretty hardened target. I'd like to actually go over the various borderland/keep maps and see if we could come up with some strategic war machine placement that might permit us to get in through a wall instead of a gate. Basically, i'd like to be able to contribute to the over all strategy used and see if I can't come up with some creative methods of breaking a siege, or breaking a fortress. I am just concerned that as a pretty low ranking member that hasn't proven himself that my efforts would not be of much use.

Corpus, rank does not make you a leader or a warlord, your heart is what makes you a leader or warlord. A Warlord does not need badges or accolades. It is part of their very existence. If you want to stand and help, we'll be more than happy to have you at our side. In a game where groups are only 5 people there will be great need for a lot of leaders. Just grab some people, build a group, and do your best to help. If you can start finding the class makeup and personnel you want to use I'd suggest building a dagger squad (Small 5 man unified team). These dagger squads are most necessary force on the battlefield. Zergs can not do what a small group can. The general PUG will not have the coordination a unified group will. I command PuGs so that our Daggers can strike the enemy where they're weakest. Rise and Lead. All that stands in your way is your own initiative and desire. That's what determines who leads and who doesn't not some silly points :). In the beginning ALL of our leaders and warlords lead before their time. I started Gaiscioch because nobody else had a guild like this. I didn't want to lead, but I also didn't want to see people be treated so poorly by other guilds. It just takes the courage to stand when others don't. From there the points and honors will take care of themselves.

so true that dagger groups can easily change the course of a big battle. For example while the main group assualts a keep, thus drawing almost all enemies from the battlefield to the keep, it would allow dagger groups of 5 to capture nearby supply camps with ease or even have a task force of 10 to capture a tower. With that even if we don't walk away with the keep in hand, we will still walk away significantly better off than them.

Something I keep hearing during some of our WvW adventures when people ask for a party invite are parties aren't really needed. Well I kinda disagree that parties aren't needed, to go along with what Fog said a dagger group can do many things especially with in our main force. Having dagger groups with in our main force targeting 1 or 2 players and spiking them down then moving on works better than 30 people attacking another 30 people 1 vs 1 in situations like we had last night. Last night was brutal but FUN hahaha... We did hold our own for a while when we went toe to toe with these other groups that were extremely organized, had more numbers, and had quite a few 80's mixed in with them. This is still new to many of us it will just take some time to get the basics down. Hmmm felt like I got off topic of the thread oops.

» Edited on: 2012-09-05 15:05:03

Have we considered having class leaders for WvW? takes a little bit of the micromanagement away. For example, grouping all the staff eles to coordinate their hardest hitting aoe's, grouping gun warriors and having them focus on one defender on the wall at a time. grouping dagger thieves, etc. Can a user be in two raidcall channels at once? this way we can have a commander giving overall orders and the squad or class leaders telling their groups how to carry them out, where to target, etc. I believe groups can utilize target assist right? we can make sure folks have this organized before hand. I believe if we go with that kind of structure, our class leaders can help train their people for a specific role in battle too. parties of 5 can practice working together or with other random parties of 5 of the same class so generally people will know the general gist of what they need to do without being told. We can have players that have strictly melee setups dedicated to rezzing during ranged exchanges, and spearheading our melee exchanges. get guardian groups dedicated to shielding/healing/supporting our aoe clusters. Some of it may sound a bit far fetched, but the more ideas the better. I am willing to help out wherever I can. I am not sure when I could do this but what I would really like to do is get a solid map for each borderland and the eternal battleground, take some in game screenshots of areas ideal for catapult setup, sneak assaults, or some good spots for some tricky line of site defensive placements in fortresses, if there are any. I have only been to one pvp event by gaiscioch, but I was impressed by both leaders I got to listen to as they wrangled folks in to action. We may also want to consider seeing if we want to organize some of these events for those who have dedicated time to training/practicing whatever we may come up with, and those who just want to jump in and have some casual pvp fun. Ideally, the eternal battleground or our home borderland would be the primary focus of the 'trained' group, should we go that route. Just a few thoughts on this.

LOL superhero I was just talking to vampire couple of days ago about this but missed the warlord meeting . All thru warhammer since release I ran city pushes, alliance raids aswell as ninja teams . I was talking to vampiresbane about how the big main force etc gets the glory but it is the elite troops that actualy help bring about the outcome . A lot of people suffer from low fps in the big keep fights but are fine when away from the big fights . We need too set up two groups of around 8 to 10 each . One group will focus on retaking suply camps, killing sentrys and killing caravans on our side of the map basic hit and run tactics. can even hide behind the camps and recap after the other guys leave to deny them resources . The other group will roam behind their lines killing stragglers trying to get to their main force , as well as cause havoc caping their supply camps, sentrys and caravans . denying them supply for repairs and to build siege thus weakening them Doing that will cause them to have to divert forces to a rear guard postion to hold on to resources , thus weaking them and allowing our main force to push more effectivly. Fighting with the big zerg force can be fun but running skrimsh / havoc ninja groups is way more fun and should help those that want to do wvW but suffer from low fps in big battles , plus the small strike teams help a lot i`d even say they are key to victory .

» Edited on: 2012-09-05 19:22:45

Train me. I'll need a class for someone really, really low on the learning curve but I'm willing to do what it takes to learn. And despite my age, my brain is still mushy enough to learn. In fact, I'm even willing to play any profession (I want to make an alt just for WvW anyway). Just tell me which profession would help out and I'll start working on learning/leveling them. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who can just jump into WvW and shine, I'd bet there are even more, like me, who need some training. Training not just to play their character better, but to play better with a group. For example, I know from reading that if a ranger pops a healing spring my thief should cluster bomb it for quick group healing. Problem is, I have no idea what a healing spring looks like. Have a variety of training levels so everyone finds their niche. Then they can move up in their training and even help train those after them. Some people will need to be taught how to party and follow a party. Some will need lessons in combo fields. Some may just need to learn the WvW maps. And some may not need training at all. We just need someone to step up and get it started.

Best way to learn WvW is just to attend the scheduled WvW events and get in Raidcall with us! Your guildies are super helpful, just ask any questions you have along the way. :D

» Edited on: 2012-09-06 21:23:04

This is already in progress unless I am mistaken. Smaller 'elite' groups are supposed to part of how we operate and it was previously mentioned somewhere. I would really like to see GSCH fight and act like they did in WAR.

It will take some time. The gaiscioch trinity was built over the course of a year. The famiarization of the game mechanic and terrain is very important. So are the squad books. If you want the glory days of war we all need to contribute what we can to getting those books in our raid leaders hands. If you've been with me the past 2 nights you've seen how useful they are. Once we have those we can start building some dagger squads and start rebirthing what made the trinity awesome.

It's something I did during our Euro WvW event this last Friday. We actually gained a few new guys to play with as a result. Though I did use Ventrillo and I need to use Raidcall from now on, but it did work. What I'll do is give out our Raidcall info, the download site, and what channel they should go to in order to help out. I'll have a few of our Gaiscioch folks ready to invite them to parties as well. And I totally agree, Absolem. It's actually pretty darn vital in order to be successful on a map. There's no way we'll ever fill an entire map with only Gaiscioch players with the que's we've been getting. My plan for my nights is the following (feedback is welcome): I lead the Main zerg (ie non Gaiscioch players) and a few good Gaiscioch leaders/warlords help invite partyless PUGs to parties. Another Draio/Warlord leads the Gaiscioch main zerg. Warlord/Sergeant leads a strike force (ie the dagger squad) of 5 or 10 players (hand picked b/c of skill/lvl). (These guys kill reinforcements and take supplies behind lines.) Warlord Sergeant leads an upgrade/defense force. (Because of everyone being broke, use badges of honor to buy siege weapons (1 treb, 2 arrow carts) for defense.) But basically the Gaiscioch zerg will be the mobile hammer we use to smash the red/blue zerg that's hitting the Main zerg while the dagger squad scouts and causes trouble behind the lines and the defense force shores up whatever we've taken already.