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Necro WvW Starting Build

Ridire de na Capall Donn
Jay
Ridire de na Capall Donn
Posted On: 04/07/2013 at 08:56 AM

I've had a necro for a while but still can't nail down a build for running in larger groups. At this point I'm thinking a power/condition damage build might be a good place to start but would really like any input from our resident necro experts.

Thanks,

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Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Gorm
Doreth
Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Gorm
Replied On: 04/07/2013 at 04:47 PM PDT

if u run in big groups and get hit by big groups wells and staff is a good area build that allows u to get hits on as many targets as possible.. makes it easy to hit targets without having to target to much :)

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/08/2013 at 02:59 PM PDT

I have an 80 necro and ran her a lot in WvWvW and still do - but I'm actually leveling another necro just to change race (yes I am a glutton for punishment :) ) and Doreth is correct - Staff and wells work great when running in groups and then your change up weapons can be whatever you want - I like axe and dagger since they fit my play style and I am building a retaliation necro - where traits will give me retaliation on using a heal and when entering Death Shroud - plus the axe #3. As far as building condition/power or something else - you really need to look at the weapons you use and what they do plus what traits you really want. I build based on the traits I want. I can augment any deficiency with my final armor and armor slotted stats. Adjusting either health, toughness, condition damage, precision, or power accordingly. The only way to get certain traits is by speccing down that line - and "wells siphoning health" is a primary for me since I run a well build and requires a full 30 points in the Blood Magic Line. This is going to leave me wanting in precision/condition damage - so my weapons and armor will have stats in those areas to make it up. I don't look at the trait lines as a way to increase stats - although they do - I look at them for my playstyle and therefore what do they do for that. I try to equal out my stats - and adjusting that through my armor and weapons and how I slot them - lets me do that once I have the traits I want. Of course I also choose what weapons I want based on my look - so I have to have a staff - I know, I'm vain.... but I then choose traits and skills that make the staff work - "increase the size of marks and make marks unblockable" (Death Magic II) I really like high toughness/health/healing since I figure the longer I survive the more damage I will do in the long run - the more I will aid my group. If I do a bunch of damage and then die... take 10-20 secs to run back, I know I will more than compensate for the lower initial damage output by staying alive through the entire fight. It is all great though - if you like to do massive damage and take out a couple of targets fast and you have fun even if you also die quickly. It is about what you want out of the game after all.

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Seaimpin de na Aracos Donn
Sathril
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Replied On: 04/08/2013 at 09:42 PM PDT
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Just curious, what was your old race and what is the new race you chose Morigana?

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Curadh de na Aracos
Oldmanjenkinz
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Replied On: 04/09/2013 at 11:01 AM PDT

By far my favorite class in WvW is my Necro. Especially when running in a group. Keep in mind every one's build is usually tailored to there own playing style but I'll offer up my build to perhaps give you some ideas. My traits are as follows: Spite= 0 Curses = 20 I take VI and IX in my trait slots Death Magic = 10 I take II in my trait slot Blood Magic = 30 I take II, VIII and XII in my trait slots Soul Reaping = 10 I take II in my trait slot. For my armor I have half Power Vitality and Condition damage and the other half is Power Precision and condition damage. My armor pieces have Superior Rune of the Thief. The reasoning for that was it was pretty cheap at the time I bought them and it gave me the Condition and Precision I wanted. My Trinkets, rings and amulet are all Power, Toughness and vitality. All of my trinkets, rings and amulet as well as back piece have Crest of the Rabid on them (Condition, precision and toughness). For my choice of weapons I use the Staff for main and then my second weapon set I use Scepter and Dagger. The reason why I use those weapons is it almost all Condition building skills. For my heal utility skill I use Well of Blood. For my utility skills Well of Corruption, Well of Suffering and Signet of the Locust. My elite skill I use Plague and when I activate it in group I spam number 2 skill to spread as much blindness as possible. On your second set of weapons, either the scepter or dagger I use Superior Signet of Geomancy so that after I drop all my marks and switch out I also get that added bleed damage to all surounding foes. This build is very much a "Melt your oponents face off" type build that also does some very nice support heals as well. As for the high crit rating I have found it to be very handy in a one on one situation. You cant crit on tics but the initial burst crits are very nice I have found. Hope this helps you.

» Edited on: 2013-04-09 20:15:07

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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 04/09/2013 at 11:16 AM PDT
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Yea, conditions do not crit, very important to remember that. Only the base damage portion of a skill has a chance to crit, the conditions never will. (not even "first tick") I'm currently rebuilding my Necro, so I can't really comment on what works well in WvW. I did run Rabid gear, but something went wrong with the traits that I wanted to use, so Zuul is all out of wack now and I am re-examining some other options. But for a general purpose WvW build, you'll want to go with high conditions, Staff and wells, then trait for Marks and Wells, especially GTAOE Wells. The rest you can mix up as you feel fits you best.

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/09/2013 at 05:29 PM PDT

I'm have an 80 Norn Necro - and changing her to human. I know - I'm old and a tad bit of a traditionalist - but I like humans. I have changed all my characters to humans - I just like the way they "feel" when I play them. I had an 80 Ranger I also deleted and started a human ranger - I deleted a lvl 60 Norn elementalist a while back to make a human and she is already an 80. I have to really like my characters to play them and although I don't RP as much as I would like - in my mind when I play - I am that character and when even a "voice" irks me... I change. I did change from axe to scepter last night and do have more fun with it than the axe - and I like the looks better. I am more of a ranged killer - and dislike being in melee range to my targets. I also discovered the "joy" of "Blood is Power" slotted skill and it does a huge amount of damage. I will alternate it out with Well of Darkness/Well of Power (which are my alternate 3rd wells) when running solo or small group - especially with using scepter or staff... I am discovering the joy of placing lots of conditions on a target from far away and watching them squirm and writhe in agony. Because of this - I may play around with the signets more but... wells still do an awesome job with multiple mobs - and that is my true happiness - killing lots of mobs. Whereas signets are more single target focused. PS. My build is very similar to OldmanJenkins when running my "well" build.

» Edited on: 2013-04-09 17:33:27

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Ridire de na Capall Donn
Jay
Ridire de na Capall Donn
Replied On: 04/09/2013 at 06:00 PM PDT

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm trying somethings out right now using more of a crit/condition damage build as mentioned here. Armor and accessories are rabid, except rings they are carrion. I have ran wells before and the cool down is kind of long for me compared to running some corruption skills.

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Oldmanjenkinz
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Replied On: 04/10/2013 at 09:40 PM PDT

Quote from Morigana: " I am discovering the joy of placing lots of conditions on a target from far away and watching them squirm and writhe in agony. " LOL Honestly the only thing missing from that statement is a "MWAAAaa ha ha ha ha!!" to make it perfect. Though to be honest it does describe the Necro wells build perfectly. There for I hereby make a motion that we as a family now and forever call what is normally called the "Necro Wells Build" the " Joyful Morigana Squirm and Writhe in Agony." build lol.

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/11/2013 at 07:57 PM PDT

I would be honored to lend my name... and I was actually doing an evil laugh (think the Wicked Witch of the West just after she says "...and your little dog, too!") just after I wrote that... but evil laughs in text just don't come across that great. ... and even though it is quite ironic to call it a "Well" build they do so much pain to someone standing in them - it really is the opposite of "well". In a small space I can stack wells that damage, siphon health, and blind (and with traits - chill them) and so many marks - that few enemies want to stand too long by my side or go through doorways. As a side note... the Necro is just fun to RP with... Although I have the "Final Rest" staff - I gave it to my elementalist and my Necro carries a Pact Staff (has skull on the top - I transmute it every time I get a new staff) and have "Deathwish" (with 3 stacked skulls) for when my new necro hits 80. . I also wear the shaman garb to look like a witch doctor (transmuting it since level 25 - ugh).

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Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Gorm
Doreth
Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Gorm
Replied On: 04/12/2013 at 03:19 PM PDT

I have to say where I enjoy my well build the most is in more of a defensive role.. they have to come in on u, and they have to kill the lord. and well the lord always sits in small area, so if u can keep him up in a small area and drop all those wells just makes every melee player regret going in there to try and kill him...

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Oldmanjenkinz
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Replied On: 04/12/2013 at 08:15 PM PDT

Now that you mention it Doreth. I wonder how well a 5 man Necro team would do in defending. I would think it would lay some serious hurt down at all the choke points.

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Morigana
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Replied On: 04/12/2013 at 10:35 PM PDT

The problem I have is if there is a large zerg and I get skill lag - I can't get my wells dropped - it is frustrating. I played in WvWvW tonight and was running with the gang - and it was mostly zerg fighting - my wells and other skills not popping was quite irritating. But when it was all working - it was sweet. I did change from scepter back to axe and seemed to actually do more damage - and the area retaliation from axe 3 was a bigger benefit than anything else when charging into large groups. I still wish I could figure out how to get rid of conditions faster if my well isn't up or staff 4 - I'm kind of stuck - unless I'm missing something.

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Ridire de na Capall Donn
Jay
Ridire de na Capall Donn
Replied On: 04/13/2013 at 12:33 PM PDT

Dagger 4 will remove all your conditions when you hit an enemy. If you're talking about removing conditions from yourself.

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/13/2013 at 05:53 PM PDT

OK - here's my issue with removing conditions... I use dagger in offhand, and can use a well to get rid of these ugly things and also staff 4 - but if my well isn't up - and I have nothing to hit with dagger 4 or staff 4 - I have actually bled out even with my healing well up... sad but true. Maybe I need to be more creative and find some poor creature to attack, but in WvWvW this is difficult. I don't have an issue except after a fight is all over and I am standing there all smug in my victory with the dead laying at my feet - then realize I have a couple of dot's still on me and I'm dying. No one around to use the dagger or staff on (not even a rabbit, chicken, or rat) - and my well that makes conditions into boons still has 10 sec of cool down left. My ele or engy have the capabilities to remove conditions without a target but I lack this on my necro (except the well which with traits still has a 48 sec cool down). But... I guess there must be some balances :)

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Ridire de na Capall Donn
Jay
Ridire de na Capall Donn
Replied On: 04/21/2013 at 08:35 AM PDT

There is also a trait in the spite tree, III spiteful removal, remove 3 conditions when you kill a enemy can trigger once every 10 seconds. Then there is another trait in the blood magic tree, XI fetid consumption, minions draw one condition every 10 seconds. Another option is to run food or runes that reduce condition duration, Rune of Melandru and/or Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup, Bowl of Poultry and Leek Soup, or Loaf of Saffron Bread.

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/21/2013 at 06:17 PM PDT

I don't use minions - don't like them and I'm not specked in the spite tree (although I will look at that) but I will definitely look into the foods. Sadly, I will admit that I am not good when it comes to my eating habits (in the game) and need to do more of it. So the food is a good tip for me.

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Tiarna de na Iomproidh Dearg
Spartan
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Replied On: 04/22/2013 at 02:55 PM PDT

you may want to think about switching out the heal well for consume condi its by fdar the best condi removal of any class heal

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Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Gorm
Doreth
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Replied On: 04/22/2013 at 04:03 PM PDT

Spartan beat me to it, consume condition rocks out, eats away all your conditions and the more u have on the more u heal, the well is a good group heal but I think u would do a lot better with a heal skill that would keep u alive instead of everyone around you.... let your staff #2 heal the group instead :)

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Morigana
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Replied On: 04/22/2013 at 04:15 PM PDT

Aha!!! another great tip... thanks Spartan and Doreth. I tend to go with what works for the group but if I live longer with the consume conditions then that might end up being better for the group. I'll change out that slotted skill and see how it works out. If I don't have any conditions stacked on me I seem to heel just fine without my heal well anyway due to all the other tricks the necro has. If I can space out my staff skil, dagger skill, and Consume conditions - I might never die - hahahahaha... ok I should live longer - I'm hard to take down now. Thanks for the tips!!! edit: Using Consume Conditions worked nicely. It gave me that "everything is dead around me and I'm stuck with a 20 sec bleed, quick find a rabbit" escape clause where I didn't need to find a rabbit to get rid of the conditions. Between Staff 4, dagger 4, Well of Power, and Consume conditions I am usually condition free. :) Thanks again!

» Edited on: 2013-04-23 15:18:54

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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 04/23/2013 at 10:32 PM PDT
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Consume helps you, it does not help anyone around you. Swap them as appropriate, but I strongly recommend running the heal Well out in WvW. If you're doing sPVP, or just out and about in PvE, then use Consume. (edit: although I personally use the heal Well, exclusively)

» Edited on: 2013-04-23 22:33:36

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Tiarna de na Iomproidh Dearg
Spartan
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Replied On: 04/24/2013 at 02:42 AM PDT

and i strongly disagre with the heal well because of the target it puts on the group that is useing it to heal it is asking for you to get aoe and cc put on yourself and ur group, the condi removal is a must for me in wvw , the well is great heals but think about how often you truly get to stand still ... keep in mind if u are playing a suport heavy build ( lot of healing power) you may think twice about runing consume jsut cause u will lose alot of group suport without the well... its all up to your playstyle or what u feel your lacking

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/24/2013 at 03:13 PM PDT

I have ran with the heal well exclusively - everywhere - and actually find it may have a purpose inside Lord Rooms or other confined spaces as you are getting targeted with mass AE's anyway. In the open field or while sieging, the well really only works to help out people on siege at the gate but for the others standing back - Spartan is right - people don't stand it anyway. I always want to shout - stand in my well, dang it - heal yourself, but no one does stand still - and when on the run - it is totally pointless - the same reason I don't like healing turret on my engy - it confines players to a space - and the healing turret or healing well is left behind when on the run. I was trying out some other builds the other day and decided my basic wells (well of corruption, well of suffering) are just too strong to give up - at least for my play style especially with the siphoning health. I don't find the heal well critical for my survival, at least not as critical as curing conditions. Well of Power and Well of Darkness - I continually swap out and will use Signet of the Locust in their place when running in open field and change it out for defending. When defending I usually change into Well of Power for group condition removal and it will also damage foes with life siphon - but I use Plague as my elite so Well of Darkness isn't a primary need. I will also add the I have ground targeting as a trait on wells and the reason for this is defensive and offensive. Defensive at choke points is great and doesn't require me to run into the choke point to drop them. Offensive - well there are silly players out there. They drop their healing turrets or wells and tend not to notice my Well of corruption being dropped on them until it's too late. While charging in I drop the wells ahead of the group and it helps clearing the field. The wells only last 5 secs and if placed right hit a group of foes and other foes will pass through it getting a couple of ticks on them also. I have trouble picking between my necro and engy to play - I love them both and they both have high survivability, really good damage, and can benefit a group - unfortunately my ele comes in third as far as playtime.

» Edited on: 2013-04-24 15:25:57

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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 04/25/2013 at 02:45 AM PDT
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Well, if folks want to argue constant movement in WvW against the use of the heal Well, then they might as well nix the idea of using any ground AOE that pulses, be they defensive or offensive. Just as with allies not going to stand in your white circles of love, you can very well bet that enemies aren't going to stand in your little red circles of pain, either. I've been quite successful in WvW with all of my Wells. If folks understand when, where and how to use them, they are very powerful utilities for a Necro. I probably don't need to state the obvious, but if folks don't fully understand the mechanics and proper application of their skills, then of course they're going to find them useless. Maybe its just me, but I don't have any kind of skill problems with any of my toons. I can easily figure out what works best for me and how to adapt any skills, weapons or utilities, to my style of play. Of course I have my favorites and best fits, but nothing I consider ill-designed and not worth using. That's why I constantly preach that people have to experiment and find what works best for them, be it Traits, Utilities, Weapons, Armor, Runes, Sigils, Boons... if they can get those things figured out, then they'll become the best player that they can be.

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 04/25/2013 at 04:33 PM PDT

Well (yep it's a pun) I think you have to constantly adapt not only for your play style but for your squad leaders play style and also the conditions of your terrain. Whether it is "open field", siege, defense, choke points, no choke points, etc. As I stated, I had never used Consume Conditions and had exclusively used the healing well. After the suggestion I gave it a try and running in a small group and constantly moving the Consume Conditions did work beautifully and I did survive better. There were numerous times - really too many to count - that it saved me from going into the "down" state. To me you have to understand everything your character can do. Adjust the skills to your play style - micro adjust to the conditions of the battle you are in and fine tune even more depending on the others in your group. If I have other people ripping conditions from me it doesn't become a concern. I'll still use the healing well - but now I have another option depending on the conditions surrounding me. You should explore and use all your options - nothing is a perfect fit for every encounter. Adapt and survive... safe journ...

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Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
DufRaven
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Replied On: 05/14/2013 at 03:21 PM PDT

With Gelrooz my Necro I run this build for PvE and PvP Pet master for pve and GTAOE master marks/wells 20 Curses - PvE II , V or VI and PvP II , IX 20 Death Magic - PvE V , X and PvP V , II 30 Blood Magic - PvE V , VII, II and for PvP V , VIII , XII I use Staff and Scepter/Dagger for weapons for Pve and Pvp PvE build - Pet Master Curses - II = Hemophilia 20% increased bleeding Duration. Staff 2, Scepter 1, 2 and Dagger 5 all Bleed dmg Curses - V = 33# chance on Crits to gain 1% life force (good if you Death Shroud alot) or Curses - VI = Fear deals dmg and additional 50% dmg if target has condition on them (usually they do) Testing didnt show much improvement and I only have 2 spells with fear - Doom which did 92 dmg to a lvl 80 target and Reapers Mark. Testing this didnt impress me skill wise so I use V Death Magic V = Staff Skills Recharge 20% faster - A must if you use a staff primarily Death Magic X = Minions have 50% more Health - For PvE I like pets so I use this skill Blood Magic V = Siphon Health whenever you Critical Hit Blood Magic VII = Minions Siphon Health and transfer it to you Blood Magic II = Siphoning Health is 50% more effective For Skills I use 6 = Well Of Blood - Heals all your pets too! 7 = Summon Bone Fiend 8 = Summon Shadow Fiend 9 = Signet of the Locust (if moving alot) 9 = Summon Flesh Worm (If camping a spot) 0 = Summon Flesh Golem For Pvp I went Full Invader gear for the power toughness and vitality My Weapons and jewelry are Power Vitality and Condition Damage (Exotic Staff and rest Rare atm) I have 29k hps 1691 power 2802 attack 1119 precision 14% Crit 1363 toughness 2178 armor 1816 vitality 27,372 health 1030 condition damage 20% boon duration 300 Healing power 47,077 hps in Plaque Form! with alot of boosted stats. My Pvp Build is 20 Curses - II , IX 20 Death Magic - V , II 30 Blood Magic - V , VIII , XII Curses - II = Hemophilia 20% increased bleeding Duration. Staff 2, Scepter 1, 2 and Dagger 5 all Bleed dmg Curses - IX = Well Skills use Ground Targeting Death Magic V = Staff Skills recharge 50% faster Death Magic II = Increases area of Marks and Marks become Unblockable Blood Magic V = Siphon Health when you critically hit Blood Magic VIII = Wells recharge 20% faster Blood Magic XII = Wells also Siphon Health everytime they Pulse Skills 6 = Well of Blood 7 = Well of Suffering or (Summon Bone Fiend if Roaming) 8 = Well of Corruption or (Summon Shadow Fiend if Roaming) 9 = Well of Darkness or (Signet of the Locust if Roaming) 0 = Plaque or Lich Form (Plaque really good in zerg vs zerg fights) Lich form good if aoe's on cooldown) This is a Zergers or defenders dream. Lotta Aoe and lotta Bags. Aoe the zerg or defend and pepper the doors with GTAOE's. Open field this isnt bad but not huge dps single target. You dont have the high crits but with this build its about maximum aoe and conditions and not much 1 on 1 strength but with the wells and random crits on all those people you keep yourself healed well. Very Easy Build to learn and use.

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Oldmanjenkinz
Curadh de na Aracos
Replied On: 05/14/2013 at 11:43 PM PDT

That looks like a very fun build Duf. Going to maybe give it try this weekend. As for the whole Consume Conditions verses Well of Blood debate in previous posts. I've run with both but I tend to always go back to Well of Blood. I tend to be one of the last ones standing any ways so giving up a little survivability for some shared heals is ok with me. "Some" might argue that it's giving up more then a little survivability but again if I'm consistantly one of the last ones standing then I think I'm surviving just fine. Really comes down to what you personally end up liking. As for Well of Blood possibly Quote: "asking for you to get aoe and cc put on yourself and ur group" I haven't really found that to be an issue thus far in my experience at all. By the time I tend to drop Well of Blood the groups already gathered up into an area. I aim for a group of allies nearest me and drop it so they as well as me get the heal. Not to put down Consume Conditions. It's a very nice asset in the Necro arsenal. Just Well of Blood is also very nice and can be just as nice to have in WvW as Consume Conditions.

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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
Laoch de na Iolair Buí
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Replied On: 05/15/2013 at 10:00 AM PDT
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Other than Well being the more powerful heal between its initial burst and the regens, it boils down to this for me: Consume saves you. Well of Blood saves your allies. Between WoB and traiting WoB on revive, I've helped turn many tower takes from failure into success. The same goes for Healing Spring, as anyone who has partied with me when I play Tabitha, can attest to. Ground AOE pulse heals are a very powerful asset for your team, in both WvW and PvE, especially if you trait for them. Its a mistake to dismiss them as not useful or as useful as your other choices.

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
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Replied On: 05/15/2013 at 02:40 PM PDT

From playing around with it - I now change it out based on the circumstance. My first choice is Well of Blood - it is very powerful - even solo. If I am mobbed by 5-6 baddies in PVE, I can drop Well of Blood, Well of Corruption, Well of Suffering, my marks except for fear (since I want them standing there) then switch to my axe/dagger and get off another couple of AE's and usually survive without an issue... all while standing still. If they are disrupting me too much I go into plague form and poison/blind them so they don't hit me. If I find mobs that are placing a lot of conditions on me then I switch to consume conditions and the same is true in WvWvW - I change up depending on the group of people I'm running with. If there are a few Mesmers I tend to hang by them to get their Null Fields and then I use my WOB to heal us all - you really have to feed off of those around you for survival in WvWvW... but you can really defend places when you do.

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Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
DufRaven
Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Replied On: 05/19/2013 at 08:41 PM PDT

I love my Well of Blood pretty much only heal I use now since it heals my pets in pve and me and my allies in Pvp. Only place I wont use Well of Blood is underwater. I use the pet. Plague is also fun as heck too I notice alot of commanders calling for it never realized how good it was until I got some practice with it in zerg fights and outta towers with 41k health takes awhile to burn me down unless I am focus fired. Lotta bags with it and funny to see people panic when I necro charge lol

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Sekkerhund
Laoch de na Iolair Buí
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Replied On: 05/20/2013 at 05:11 AM PDT
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They want Plague for the AOE Blind on your #2 skill, Plague of Darkness. It also has a nasty poison that messes with healing. In WvW, its a Necro's best Elite utility. Dive into a zerg, pop Plague, spam your #2 skill and bad things happen to them. :)

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