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It's Been A While: Heart to Heart Time

Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
  • ESO: @Foley
Posted On: 06/30/2019 at 10:31 AM
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I am going to be completely transparent and honest in this section as I feel it is only fair and necessary to explain the current events within Gaiscioch. I've seen a lot of bitter comments flowing in our Discord about how we jump into a game and then everyone leaves and we move on to the next one. I've seen comments about how I personally play a game for a little bit and then jump to a new one. There are a few things I want to get out in the open.

  1. I play games to entertain. This is my endgame. I don't find joy in playing games by myself. I don't want to use the little time I have to lead events people don't show up for. I will use my time every time to fill it with an event people want to attend. My goal is to have 10+ people at every event I run. I have stayed true to this goal since the beginning of Gaiscioch nearly 18 years ago.
  2. I can't predict what will sink or swim. As much as I would like to say hey guys come play this you'll love it, it will be epic, it's going to be our next chapter, I simply can't predict what will happen when a game launches. I can see the warning signs that have caused hardship in the past, but in the end the developers of a game can change things at the last minute and shift the focus of the game. I have algorithms and spreadsheets that help me track the features you guys enjoy and make use of regularly and I map these based on the events and activities that are popular among our players. But even the most logical predictions still can't survive the test of whether players actually enjoy playing or if they will even give it a shot in the first place.

Now with those two things said I want to answer some questions that regularly pop up.

  • Why do we spread ourselves so thin?
    The bottom line is that we've been searching for chapter 6 for 4 years now. Typically when the population drops below 300 we start looking for that next home. Now the MMO market, as you may know, is not what it used to be. We have roughly 10-20 new MMOs coming out every year. Sifting through these MMOs is a bit of a task.

    I've been able to eliminate several of them just based on playstyles of our members. For example, Darkfall released 2 different versions of the original. Seeing as less than 20% of our population currently partakes in PvP in the games we play this would be a bad choice for us. We have roughly 500 active members currently and only about 100 of them play consensual PvP. Even less play non-consensual PvP. This allows me to weed out games that don't meet at least our basic requirements.

    Another big factor is Guild Size. With the modern trend of solo gaming in MMOs it has pushed social systems to the back burner. Guilds have shrunk dramatically because they want to make content fair for all players. This has made my job very difficult. For example, Conqueror's Blade once had a guild limit of 500, then 250, then at Open Beta launch it was 30 on day one and increased to 70 for level 1 guilds after a certain guild exploited the system. It's awful hard to support 300+ players in a game that only allows a max of 70 characters in a guild.

    So for the past 4 years, we've continued to search high and low for whatever might be able to interest 300+ people and also support a community with 300+ people. Sure Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online can, however, we haven't been able to keep 300+ people interested in playing for quite some time. Our community really shines when we have a large crew supporting it.

  • Why do we need a chapter to include 300+ people?
    I get this a LOT. The first thing to understand is that our average age in our community is 43 years of age. The average 40+ year old in the United States spends between 6 and 10 hours of gaming every week. This is directly from public industry statistics. On top of that our community welcomes and encourages casual gamers. So let me break down the math for you guys.

    300 People x 10 Hours Per Week = 3,000 Game Hours Per Week
    168 Total Hours in a Week (24 x 7)
    3,000/168 = 11-18 Players Online Per Hour Average

    Now if we take the current standard of games guild size:

    100 x 10 = 1,000 Game Hours
    1,000/168 = 4-6 Player Online Per Hour Average

    By having the small guild sizes it forces us to kick casual gamers out and only allow the Hard Core gamer in. To maximize our population and ensure people can find and fill groups. This isn't the way Gaiscioch works! This is, in fact, the REASON Gaiscioch was founded in the first place. We are the home for those that would be cast out by hardcore guilds for not playing enough. We are the home for those who have full-time jobs and families. I refuse to turn us into just another guild that kicks out people for not playing enough. It's bad enough with the 500 person limits that we have to rotate rosters.

    For us to remain welcoming to Casual Gamers we MUST focus on games that allow a minimum of 300 players.

  • If you only play games to entertain why do you spend so much time livestreaming to a handful of people?
    This is an excellent question. I have battled with this one ever since I started on this quest. I can tell you that the ONE reason I continue to livestream games daily even if it's just for myself is that it keeps us in the "Media" column. We gain valuable opportunities for our community by livestreaming. When you register for several of the gaming media and events sites they require us to sync our YouTube and Twitch accounts with them. They total up the total amount of stream time and offer you opportunities based upon those numbers. If I was to stop streaming regularly we would lose access to interviews, behind the scenes NDA projects, and more importantly mass beta code giveaways for games we're looking at playing. The livestreams are simply our way of keeping our foot in the door to gain access to games that might not be announced publicly yet. We also launched the magazine to help with this endeavor however it doesn't have anywhere near the numbers we've built up from 8 years of livestreaming. 

  • What's next for Gaiscioch?
    I would love to tell you chapter 6 is going to be Ashes of Creation and we're going to amass a crazy big army and make the world the coolest place ever. However, as seen with games like Bless, pretty visuals, nice looking game systems on paper, a good story, don't always make it to the live game the way we thought they would. It's way too soon to tell and as of right now. We're still in the hunt for chapter 6. Right now we will continue focusing efforts on our two main chapters and try to keep as many free floaters on the boat as we can through adventures. Adventures have proved a very good way to keep our members around and active in the community. It is my hope that 2020 or 2021 will be the years we find that next home and can pull the family together once again. 

    In all honesty, I'm tired of hopping from game to game hoping for a sign of greatness. I'm ready to find a place to grow roots again. I just want to find a place where we all can be happy and unified and call a place home. One that has both PvE and PvP and doesn't force people to do either. One that doesn't force us to sacrifice our way of life to successfully exist. I hope it's right around the corner.

I thank you all for reading my wall of text and hope that it illuminates what's going on and why we do the things we do. The bottom line is the industry has changed, the demographic has changed, the player base expectations have changed, and the playstyle focus has changed. A lot of cards are playing against our way of life and I am searching for a lifeline. Something to keep us alive and well for the next 10 years. Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online are two great games to ride out as long as we can. Hell, who knows, maybe they will improve on things and bring players back into the fold. In all honesty, sometimes I feel the best new MMO is the ones we've had all along. I begin to wonder if maybe I should look back rather than forward. It's all a matter of where I can find the best platform to sustain our community long term.

Last Edited on: 07/03/2019 at 09:57 AM
"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Response:

Caomhnoir de na Aracos Corcra
Maxina
Caomhnoir de na Aracos Corcra
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Replied On: 06/30/2019 at 11:07 PM PDT
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46 views (when I logged on) on this topic, 0 replies. Thank you Fog for your honest explanation of the current status. I have been wondering why there has been little to activity on the site. Few stories, few comments, no hellos. I myself can only commit to playing one game at a time. I am usually on every day in ESO. If you look at the guild roster, we may have twenty or thirty players on at any given time; with just a handful on discord. I was starting to get worried that the guild was falling apart, at least on ESO. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are probably one of the best guild leaders there has ever been. So, thank you again for all your hard work and commitment to maintaining a guild that we can all be proud to be in. 

Let's us all try to commit to one another, say hello in chat when you log on; if you have Discord, join a channel and say hello. You don't have to be in an event, hang in the lobby. Say hello to Verv, he's a great guy and always ready to chat, help out, whatever. 

Maxina / Tom

"Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none".
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Tiarna de na Iolair Corcra
Jairone
Tiarna de na Iolair Corcra
  • GW2: Jairone.6270
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Replied On: 07/01/2019 at 06:05 AM PDT
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I'll just add this:  Many of us try to find fun things to play, and offer the chance to do something for people.  Nobody has to come and play, that's not the way the system here works.  If you are missing people in a game, ask!  If you want to return to specific old adventures, ask or run an event.  Get help from those who run events, see if they would run one in your chosen game.  Etc.

There are a ton of games, and we all are only human.  Those who gather people for events, those who attend, etc.  About half my events outside chapters tend to get nobody showing up.  The response I have isn't "Well, nobody showed up, this is bad."  It is how I can change those events for the better, be it time, game, or something else.  Sometimes it is just keeping with things, and people show up to something later (LOTRO for example) where there were but a handful of us who ran around together over the last few years until now.

The key here is that nobody can respond to a specific game or desire unless it is voiced.  Sometimes people don't respond, because they do not wish to be a negative to a desire, don't have time, or whatever.  I cannot promise anything, other than that at the least I will consider what people want to play.  At the end of the day, I run events that I think will be fun for people who attend.  Sometimes that is utility (like clearing a grind) and sometimes it is based on the content and getting together.  What it never involves, however, is picking up a game from the mind of somebody who hasn't asked about that game... any choices to look at games we have played in the past are either my own initiative, or somebody asking about a run there.

The TL/DR here is that none of us can help people enjoy old games if people aren't specific.  We all have our own lives and preferences, share yours with event leaders, make events, and as a group we can indeed play some of the games that people miss.  

Thank you all for your consideration toward those of us leading events!  -Jairone

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Nona
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  • GW2: Noma.5703
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Replied On: 07/01/2019 at 11:21 PM PDT
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I have been with you since the early days of DAoC, am proud of you, and how you have maintained the integrity in all games we have committed ourselves to playing.   After all these years you have maintained the ideals we first put forth in Dark Ages, not an easy task to perform.  As we have seen in the past games do wonderful, then only takes one expansion or patch to send the whole game down the toilet.  We witnessed that in Dark Ages,  know that i support you and my family in whatever game they lead me to play.   Thank you Fog for all your dedication, see you at Paxx west.

Nona

Last Edited on: 07/01/2019 at 11:22 PM
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Selrina
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Replied On: 07/03/2019 at 08:21 AM PDT
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Thanks Fog for the post.  The main reason I joined Gaiscioch many years ago is exactly what Fog just said.  RL has kept me from playing any game lately which means in any other guild I would not still have a home.  You have put your heart in everything you do for Gaiscioch which is why we are still here and true to the vision you had for a guild that welcomes the casual player of all ages.  

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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
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Replied On: 07/03/2019 at 10:03 AM PDT
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Thank you for your responses, everyone. This has definitely been a tricky game to navigate us through this sea of rocks. So many games that looked great on paper and preview that turned out so wrong at launch. I mean at one point Bless was being considered for chapter consideration. Imagine if we went there, I poured 100+ hours into building out a marketplace all to have the dev dump it in less than a year. If it wasn't for their small guild sizes we probably would have considered that one seriously. That was the only red flag it hit in our base Compatability Matrix. So many games promise so much but rarely deliver. And I have to keep in mind that this is a maturing community with most of us in our 40's now. A lot of these twitchy games aren't going to be where we shine. I certainly don't want to become the Blockbuster of gaming guilds, but I also want to make sure that our members who have been here since the beginning have a home they feel they can be effective in. Taking you all to Fortnite Battle Royale probably wouldn't be the best move. I've got to find the right canvas to paint a masterpiece.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Cedrissa
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Replied On: 07/03/2019 at 12:11 PM PDT
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I don't normally speak much in forums or in Discord, but felt compelled to step out of the comfort zone and post a little something here. I'm an introvert which sucks sometimes, but it is what it is.

 

I can't fully express how much I appreciate Gaiscioch and all the work you put into this family, Fog. Those 3 lines that Breg quoted above, so much that. I'm not chatty (introvert), my hands are slowing down (58 years young), it sometimes takes me a while to "get" stuff and my anxiety keeps me from raids/dungeons and sometimes takes me away from games altogether for a stretch. None of that matters. I honestly feel that even though I'm a bit of an odd bird, I have a home in Gaiscioch. Beyond answering the few questions that I can in game, you've given me a way to contribute and feel useful through the marketplace. Your careful analysis of upcoming games, streaming what and when you can and honest assessments have kept me from making some costly mistakes in both time and money, and have kept me from being swept away in the hype to really LOOK and consider what I want to try next. Until the day comes that a game finally ticks all the boxes and looks like it will survive, I'm very happy in GW2 and my return to LoTRO. Thank you!

"Do the best you can until you know better. Then, when you know better, do better." - Maya Angelou
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Fine
Baoruco
Fine
  • ESO: @francisco1844
Replied On: 07/03/2019 at 04:50 PM PDT

Thanks for the post Fog.

 

I am literally a day old in the guild, but wanted to comment because I used to be on a similar, cross game, guild in the past. It is not an easy task. You have outlined very well the challenges and those are unlikely to change. I don't think there will ever be a time, or an MMO, that can be all things to all people. Just as an example when I moved from using Windows to Mac that totally changed what games will work well on my machine; or at all.

 

I think it all comes down to how we can all work together to make the community the best it can be while not causing burn out on the community leadership. Encouraging and nurturing new leaders to help in whatever roles fit their play and lifestyles.

 

As long as there are players, and we have enough of a critical mass, in any given game we should continue to have participation and to see how we can recruit. For instance I found this guild through a guild listing for ESO. Something as simple as exploring what sites have guild listings, if the game doesn't have an automatic way to do it, is an example of the type of activities we can do, with relatively low effort, to continue to attract players to the guild.

 

Look forward to work with everyone to make our community grow and help people have fun on whatever games we are.. or will be.

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Lorgaire de na Sailetheach
Sword
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Replied On: 07/04/2019 at 07:22 AM PDT
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Since march ive played gta v for a month, conan for a month,  now engaged in hunter call of the wild.

 

Not many games have kept me interested long term since Warhammer days. What got my early on in Warhammer was the pvp and huge battles.

Thats rare in mmo's there days.  Variety is also a good thing... gamers like to try many different games. Nothing wrong with that. Also a great way to find new members

 

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Ban Caomhnoir de na Capall Gorm
Kelda
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Replied On: 07/05/2019 at 06:30 PM PDT
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Hi Fog! Your hard work and dedication to Gaiscioch is much appreciated.  We probably don't say that enough.  The next chapter will come, and even if it's not perfect, Gaiscioch will make the most of it.  This community rocks!  I've been a member since 2012, and even though I haven't been in every game Gaiscioch has explored, I know that I have a home.  The community has always been there.  I just got my husband to join Gaiscioch as well. He's Gils in new members.  

Thanks to Fog again, and to the members who answer the newbie questions, lead the events, and spend time even if you've already done that quest or visited that dungeon multiple times.  You're what holds the guild together.  The rest of us may be quiet, but we do notice.  

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Ekajata
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Replied On: 08/26/2019 at 12:11 PM PDT
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It's not you. And it's not this. The entire industry is doing an uncontrolled burn and it remains to be seen if it will explode, implode, or reload.

I've had a number of guilds and communities fall out from under me over the years; most of them do so precisely because they 'drink the koolaid' when it comes to the idea of permanence of products in this industry, and in this genre of the industry in particular. None of these products are permanent any more than you or I are permanent in this life. So they cannot be permitted the place of primacy; it has to be about the collective because we all know that no one game can or will last forever. 

I joined Gaiscioch because I wanted to be part of a gaming community that transcended the very vested interests of the game developers and publishers. 

I am really quite angry with the industry for being so willing to toss over its customers in the name of monetizing of them; you put a price on everything, you're setting yourself up to face the inevitable litigation over investments and value over time. It just astonishes me how short-sighted humans and business can be. 

Anyway... a community is a group of people who leverage their common interests and strengths on behalf of one another. If someone feels that they aren't receiving as much as they would like, my best suggestion is for them to lead a few adventures that just so happen to include whatever it is they seek. 

You're still here. I'm still here. Others are, too. Folks come, go, and rattle about and that's all well and good.... until it isn't. What I hear when you make posts like this is a balance of concern and consternation... don't let it bug you too much. As always, you do your best and start from the assumptions that others do, too.

Me? I'm not feeling very engaged or social these days.... not that I was ever extroverted. I can lead, but prefer to follow because gaming is my relief and release and I need it to be that. So I'm quiet. Until I'm not. Like now.

If another game arrives that meets my (limited) expectations, I'll leap in with all hands and toes. 

Until then, I'm re-enacting my version of Firefly in No Man's Sky and loving it. ;)

Chin up, boss... seasons pass and reasons change, but no garden dies that the community itself tends. 

 

If it ain't fixed, break it until it is.
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Fili de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Haggal
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Replied On: 10/18/2019 at 10:06 PM PDT
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I'm coming a little late to this thread. RL has been keeping me busy more than usual and I've been struggling to read everything I should and would like to. I haven't actually followed any of the mentioned negative remarks, so I can't go on my regular attorney-style analytical ranting, dissecting every aspect of what's being debated.

What I can say is I'm certain there are a lot more important things for every one of us to worry about in RL than many would like to admit. We come here to have fun and forget about these things while playing with friends. Friends. Friends from different parts of the world. Friends I don't know personally. Friends who share at least a similar interest in gaming as I do. Friends I can talk to about unstressful subjects. Friends I can leave unattended if RL calls because they share the same RL and fictional worlds I do and understand when I have to leave. Friends I greet (and try to say goodbye) every day I'm online gaming, more than I can say about some people I meet in RL. Friends I cherish the virtual company for they're committed to playing their part when we are in a group. Friends who are incredibly helpful. Friends who pass mostly unnoticed. Friends who don't complain. Friends who complain. Friends who complain a lot. Friends who don't need my attention. Friends who do! Just friends...

When I play one of our games I'm never worried about what I can take from it. I play (more times solo than I'd like to) and try to offer my time and my knowledge whenever I can. Of course I prefer to partner up with friends, but that I know is not always possible. What I can do is offer the little expertise I have to help others. And the joy of seeing someone helped is what I take home.

Do I care most MMOs got stale for me? I certainly do. Do I care sometimes discussions annoy me in game and add to the staleness of gaming? Again I certainly do. Still, I keep the faith in my beliefs of what being a human being is, both in RL and in our fictional lives, shrug those annoyances aside, and keep playing to the best of what my human nature allows me to. That's why I embraced Gaiscioch as much as it embraced me a few years ago. Fogh does his part superbly to keep this community flying under the most sensible values I've ever seen in any community (and I've been a boy scout).

The first thing I'd urge everyone who has an issue with how things are handled is to get informed about why things are done the way they are before commenting negatively about them. Ask questions, get to know the problems, the options, and the possible solutions. After you got to know the issues in detail, engage yourself in helping solve them. Offer your expertise, if you have them, to further analyze and tackle our problems. And accept we are heading somewhere as a unified community. When there's nothing left for you to do, just help your fellow players. If nothing else you can do, start by giving the proper value to other players' efforts and don't "forget" to claim events you participate in.

Focus on helping your friends and the community. Get to know why we've been here for so long. Chances are you'll find a lot more reasons to keep playing... and to be a Gaiscioch member.

My kindest regards and best wishes to you all!

Haggal

Last Edited on: 10/18/2019 at 10:13 PM
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kmfeternal
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Replied On: 10/24/2019 at 09:00 AM PDT
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Hello!

I just wanted to offer my thanks as well for all of the work that you, Fog, and the core members in each game / activity put in. I found Gaiscioch at the ESO launch and, unfortunately, that was right about at the point where the "good old days" of hours to play games were at an end for me. As many have said, in most scenarios I would have found myself completely guild-less but instead I'd found a family that was there even when I barely had time to check in. Nothing impressed / impresses me more than when I do reappear after being gone for awhile and people I barely interacted with are like "Oh yeah, I remember you!".

 

I am an introvert by nature, and will probably always be on the quiet side, but my hope is that the time I can put into Gaiscioch will only increase. Life seems to be leveling out now... but we all know how that goes! Regardless, I appreciate this family and I understand the challenges that come with pulling such a broad endeavor off.

 

<3,

Kelley (aka kmf_eternal, formerly unboundwolf)

"I always had a repulsive need to be something more than human." - David Bowie
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